Quick Reaction: 10x22 The Prisoner
May. 14th, 2015 12:04 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
hells_half_acreWOoooooooooooooooooo....
Okay, standard rules - watched the episode once, had a lot of wine, don't have spell check on this motherf****, all quotes paraphrased, etc etc...
Episoooooooooode................
I don't know about you but I'm here for the MURDER PORN!
Should I be disturbed that I find coldblooded killers so sexy? Maybe, perhaps. Do I care? Not a lick. All my licks are saved for... uh... moving on....
Okay, so, if we actually start the episode at the beginning, then it is sad times forever.
I'm still kind of torn up about the Charlie thing - I mean, I can see why they did it, but I still feel it was the lazy-writing way out and that there were options to doing the same thing without killing Charlie. But, whatever...
I will say that it was pretty neat to actually SEE the building of the funeral pier. Piar? Piere? PYRE! Funeral pyre. We always see the burning body, but we don't see the hour it takes to chop down trees, to build the thing, the labour intensive process that is giving a hunter a proper burial. Personally, I think that the building of the pyre is as important a part of the ceremony as the burning - or, an important part of the grief. I mean, on the one hand, I don't like dead bodies and I don't want to be near them, even if they were once my loved ones, on the other hand, I think that as a culture (Europe+America) we've kinda lost something by divorcing ourselves from the burial/funeral process and paying other people to do it. ANYWAY, that's off topic...
Dean is all like "THIS IS YOUR FAULT SAM! I WISH YOU WERE DEAD AND NOT CHARLIE!"
And Sam is all like "Ouch...." but inside he's all like "THIS DOESN'T JIVE WITH YOUR PREVIOUS ATTITUDE MAN. REMEMBER WHEN KEVIN ENDED UP DYING BECAUSE YOU WANTED ME ALIVE! HUH! WAS THAT ALL FUN AND GAMES FOR YOU!?" Okay, maybe Sam doesn't have these thoughts, but *I* do.
Maybe this is a way for them to get Sam to forgive Dean for Gadreel, since Sam is proving that he too can get their friends killed in the name of saving his brother. (to be a bitter Sam!girl for a moment here, I'm sure a huge swatch (swathe? Uh... chunk) of fandom will be like, "Dean was totally Justified, where as Sam is guilty 5eva and horrible!" Oh fandom. It has been 10 years.
What was I talking about? Oh yeah, so... Kevin and Charlie both die because the brothers prioritize each other above all else. This is the theme that Carver has really been exploring since he started - what's the price of their codependency? In what ways are the Winchesters dangerously selfish to a degree that makes them the bad guys in terms of humanity?
I also think this is why both Kevin and Charlie's deaths annoy me the most out of everyone's. They aren't deaths caused by forces beyond the Winchesters' control. They are deaths caused as a direct result of the Winchesters' actions, and so therefore both of them are really done to contribute to the character plots of Sam and Dean, rather than contribute to their own story (like Ellen, Jo, and Gabriel's deaths... or Castiel's multiple deaths.)
Okay, sorry, I will take off my critical hat and put back on my drunk hat.... (PSYCH! DRUNK HAT WAS UNDER CRITICAL HAT THE WHOLE TIME!)
When do we get to the murder porn? Now?
Dean walks off to become an AVENGER.
Sam is all like "I guess I should do what Dean says and go put a stop to my sketchy plans..."
And then when he gets there, Cas is like "Where's Charlie?" and Sam is like SADFACE and Cas is like "WHY DIDN'T YOU ASK ME TO RESURRECT HER BEFORE YOU BURIED HER?!" and Sam is like "BECAUSE HER DEATH IS FUELING DEAN'S DECENT INTO MADNESS!"
Uh, okay, so I made that last part up. I don't know why Sam and Dean didn't seek Angel help for Charlie, especially since Sam knew exactly where Cas was. It makes no sense whatsover. And before you say that it's probably because Cas is fallen and his wings a broken, may I remind you that Gadreel was in the same boat when he resurrected both Cas AND Charlie in two back to back episodes. I mean, is there a rule about how fresh the corpse has to be?! We're never told! It's not like Charlie was killed with the colt. I mean, COME ON.
Okay, uh... I'm supposed to have my drunk hat on, not my critical hat.
Anyway, Sam is all like "we're going to shut this motherf***er down! but then his phone makes a very convincing BOOPBOOP noise and he discovers that Charlie cracked the code before she died...and well...it's hard to turn away from a project when it looks like it might actually be possible to achieve something with it.
Of course, Cas is all like "BUT DEAN SAID!" and Sam is like "DEAN IS GOING CRAZY! GO LOOK AFTER HIM!" And Cas is like "ugh, FINE!"
Then Rowena is like, "GO KILL CROWLEY LIKE YOU SAID!" and Sam is like "UGH, FINE!"
MEANWHILE IN MURDER TOWN!
Dean is going a murdering - first stop, the police station, because of COURSE the Stynes have the town in their pocket.
Oh, hey, I didn't talk at all about Baby!Styne and his plot...uh, it was a sad one... he is like a little Sam, who doesn't want to be part of a murder family and wants to run away to the west coast - but unlike Sam, his family will actually kill him if they find out his plans, instead of just disowning him and then checking up on him like sad puppies that didn't mean to bite you and really regret it, but also don't know how to apologize. And his family thinks they are being all family-ish by capturing his bully and then making Baby!Styne murder him to both prove that they love him and that he loves them....only instead it makes Baby!Styne super sad, because he knows that the bully was just trying to fit in and made bad choices and didn't deserve to die. And everything is heartbreaking forever.
Also, the whatshisface Styne was like "They had me in this bunker that was full of magic! Let's go raid it! WOOT! And oh man... so much for the wards on the bunker, I guess. They must only apply for people that the Winchesters haven't brought there - which means that Crowley can probably come and go as he pleases too right now. Not smart, boys.
BACK TO MURDER!
Uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuunf.
Dean starts off small, somewhat merciful, and still damn hot, when he tells the police officer that he'll be free in thirty seconds and then gets the keys to the cuffs in thirty seconds by taking down the cop while he's still handcuffed to the chair. Then he goes after the Sheriff and it's still awesome town - but non-stynes get to live.
I also love love love these lines:
Sheriff: "[the Stynes] are like gods around here"
Dean: "Yeah, well, I kill gods."
- SO AWESOME.
Dean gets the name and address of the Stynes and then goes to TOWN. AND IT IS AWESOME.
The way he takes out the first few guys is just awesome. Stab, drop corpse without looking at it, continue walking. So hot.
(Side story: Back at the tender age of 21, my BFF introduced me to anime by showing me Record of Lodoss War. There's a berserker character in it that I absolutely fell in love with - and he had this great scene/line in one episode when the crew have to get into some place but there are two guards at the door, so the Berserker just walks up to them and slaughters them both with two slices of his great sword, and then he walks past the corpses as they fall, and when the rest of the crew is like "OMG", he says, "They were in our way." And man, this is what that was like, and it was awesome.)
Dean gets the old plastic-bag over the head once he gets in the door though. And that slows him down temporarily.
Back to Sam! Sam is killing Crowleykins. Or, tryig to. Rowena wants him to do it "her way" which is apparently a devil's trap bullet and a hex bag.
Speaking of Murder!Porn. I LOVE the fact that Sam isn't apologetic about what he's doing. Crowley tries to get sympathy, telling Sam how he reordered hell after Sam gave him a taste of humanity, how Crowley has been trying to be the good guy... and I LIKE the fact that Sam is like "YOU HAVE KILLED PEOPLE I LOVE AND DONE VERY VERY EVIL THINGS!" A
And, you might make a case for whether everyone deserves a change at redemption or not - but I love the fact that Sam hasn't forgiven Crowley. I love the fact that even when Sam was "curing" Crowley back in S8, the plan was always to kill him afterward. I love the fact that Sam is merciless, I guess... which is odd, because I know that I also love Sam for the times that he DOES show mercy. So, maybe I'm a hypocrite - or maybe I just think some people are irredemable. I don't know. The point is that as much as I know a large part of fandom loves Crowley, and as much as I like Mark Sheppard, I have personally gotten a bit frustrated with understanding why the Winchesters haven't managed to kill him yet.
What I really love about this episode is that it DOES tell us a little bit of WHY they haven't managed it yet - Crowley is powerful. He coughs a bit, makes his case to Sam, but when that doesn't fly, Crowley decides that enough is enough. If Sam won't grant him a chance at redemption (whether he honestly wants it or not), then Crowley will embrace the evil.
We finally see Crowley's eyes change while he's in his regular meatsuit. And then he gets up and escapes - letting Sam live, under the condition that Sam knows that he's alive purely on Crowley's mercy... which is a nice "fuck you" from Crowley, I must admit.
Also, just an FYI: I don't think that the knife would have worked even if Sam had gotten his hands on it. We've seen in the past that the knife doesn't work on powerful demons (alistair, lilith)... I've doubted for YEARS that it would work on Crowley, and I still doubt it. I'd like the show to prove it, but they'll probably save that for a later date.
Meanwhile, Dean returns to MURDER TOWN!
I love Dean's argument when they wake him - they can't kill him, because he'll wake up with blackeyes and they'll all be killed. If they leave him human, then some of them might have a chance, given that humans are fallible. I also love the camera shot of Dean upsidedown on the white table. Beautiful.
And sure enough, as soon as they cut into him, it's super-strength murder time! I AM HERE FOR THE MURDER!
Everyone dies, but not before Daddy!Styne gives Dean the hint that there's a faction headed to the Bunker. So, Dean heads to the bunker....
Sam calls Rowena to give her the heads up that Crowley got free, is alive, and is probably going to kill her. She insists that Sam still try to get the job done and hangs up.... but she is clearly not happy about this turn of events.
Meanwhile, the Styne's are pillaging the bunker - not cool, man. Baby!Styne is all like "hey books. Oh hey, these people are people and have family and loved ones... I do not want to damage their lovely home." But his cousins are like "READING AND CARING ABOUT PEOPLE IS FOR PUSSIES AND IF YOU WERE A REAL MAN YOU'D BURN SHIT!" This, my friends, is toxic masculinity... be warned.
I'm super sad that the books and Dean's albums and photos got coated in kerosine. That is going to damage things greatly. Sad times forever. (says the historian with friends in the document/artifact-preservation business).
Before they light the match though, Dean comes in soaked in (hot) blood and looking murderous (hot.)
And then it's killing time again! I love the whole speech the Styne gives about how he's had upgrades and blah blah blah... and then Dean is like "but you still have one brain" and shoots him in it. It's very classic Indian Jones, and I love it.
(Also loved Dean's comment of "seven nipples for the ladies, or the fellas, I don't judge." The only thing I love more than emotionless killing machines is NONJUDGEMENTAL emotionless killing machines.)
Of course, then we see how once the murder train is in motion, it's not so easy to stop... because while Baby!Styne pleads for his life and tells Dean that he hated his family and he's not one of them, and he won't ever be one of them, Dean is all like "you've got evil in your blood and therefore you will eventually be evil, so you die."
And while Dean might be projecting here, I can't help but wince, because there's another character on this show that canonically has evil in their blood... and they have proven time and again that it doesn't make them evil. And if Dean is changing his mind on that, it is bad times ahead.
Dean shoots Baby!Styne in the head too...so, it's a merciful death, at least, because it is quick... also, right before he does it, he gives the kid a slight moment of hope by looking like he might actually be listening. So, you know, of all the ways to kill that kid, Dean was probably chose the most kind way, if there is such a thing.
Cas doesn't agree when he comes in though. He is all like "You shouldn't have killed that kid, this proves that you are on the murder train and it is bad times ahead for everyone!" And Dean is like, "no it doesn't. I kill things for a living. This is normal."
And I really do love Cas's speach about why he has to save Dean... about how Dean might be able to go centuries, like Cain did, without murdering, and maybe Sam will die before Dean started murdering everyone in sight and so Sam will never have to see it - but that Cas will, because Cas is also a (somewhat) immortal being.
I think part of the reason I love the speech is because you see immortality not as a good thing "now Dean and Cas can be immortal together and live happily ever after", but as as horrible thing, where Cas knows that eventually he'll see Dean become the thing that Dean hates the most, that Dean would RATHER DIE than become...and so, even though Cas will live forever (unless murdered), Cas would also prefer that Dean died at the end of his short human life.
So, of course, Dean then proceeds to beat the shit out of Castiel. :(
Still, I mean, Cas beat the shit out of Dean in S8, so fairsies? even steven? yes? no? no.... probably no.
Dean pulling hte angel blade was scary - I knew he hadn't killed Cas when he stabbed it down though, because there was no VHOOOM sound and blue light. Still... it's his BFF... everything is rotten in the state of Dean.
And that's where we are moving into the season finale...with Dean on the murder train to demonville, Crowley pissed off and on the loose, Rowena untrustworthy, Sam desperate, Castiel out of this depth... it should be interesting.
Brief note about the preview for next week: I know it might be foilers, but "DEAN IS BECOME DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS!"
As usual, let me know your thoughts in comments and such... I feel like I missed a lot of things, but I was very distracted by attractive men killing people...
Okay, standard rules - watched the episode once, had a lot of wine, don't have spell check on this motherf****, all quotes paraphrased, etc etc...
Episoooooooooode................
I don't know about you but I'm here for the MURDER PORN!
Should I be disturbed that I find coldblooded killers so sexy? Maybe, perhaps. Do I care? Not a lick. All my licks are saved for... uh... moving on....
Okay, so, if we actually start the episode at the beginning, then it is sad times forever.
I'm still kind of torn up about the Charlie thing - I mean, I can see why they did it, but I still feel it was the lazy-writing way out and that there were options to doing the same thing without killing Charlie. But, whatever...
I will say that it was pretty neat to actually SEE the building of the funeral pier. Piar? Piere? PYRE! Funeral pyre. We always see the burning body, but we don't see the hour it takes to chop down trees, to build the thing, the labour intensive process that is giving a hunter a proper burial. Personally, I think that the building of the pyre is as important a part of the ceremony as the burning - or, an important part of the grief. I mean, on the one hand, I don't like dead bodies and I don't want to be near them, even if they were once my loved ones, on the other hand, I think that as a culture (Europe+America) we've kinda lost something by divorcing ourselves from the burial/funeral process and paying other people to do it. ANYWAY, that's off topic...
Dean is all like "THIS IS YOUR FAULT SAM! I WISH YOU WERE DEAD AND NOT CHARLIE!"
And Sam is all like "Ouch...." but inside he's all like "THIS DOESN'T JIVE WITH YOUR PREVIOUS ATTITUDE MAN. REMEMBER WHEN KEVIN ENDED UP DYING BECAUSE YOU WANTED ME ALIVE! HUH! WAS THAT ALL FUN AND GAMES FOR YOU!?" Okay, maybe Sam doesn't have these thoughts, but *I* do.
Maybe this is a way for them to get Sam to forgive Dean for Gadreel, since Sam is proving that he too can get their friends killed in the name of saving his brother. (to be a bitter Sam!girl for a moment here, I'm sure a huge swatch (swathe? Uh... chunk) of fandom will be like, "Dean was totally Justified, where as Sam is guilty 5eva and horrible!" Oh fandom. It has been 10 years.
What was I talking about? Oh yeah, so... Kevin and Charlie both die because the brothers prioritize each other above all else. This is the theme that Carver has really been exploring since he started - what's the price of their codependency? In what ways are the Winchesters dangerously selfish to a degree that makes them the bad guys in terms of humanity?
I also think this is why both Kevin and Charlie's deaths annoy me the most out of everyone's. They aren't deaths caused by forces beyond the Winchesters' control. They are deaths caused as a direct result of the Winchesters' actions, and so therefore both of them are really done to contribute to the character plots of Sam and Dean, rather than contribute to their own story (like Ellen, Jo, and Gabriel's deaths... or Castiel's multiple deaths.)
Okay, sorry, I will take off my critical hat and put back on my drunk hat.... (PSYCH! DRUNK HAT WAS UNDER CRITICAL HAT THE WHOLE TIME!)
When do we get to the murder porn? Now?
Dean walks off to become an AVENGER.
Sam is all like "I guess I should do what Dean says and go put a stop to my sketchy plans..."
And then when he gets there, Cas is like "Where's Charlie?" and Sam is like SADFACE and Cas is like "WHY DIDN'T YOU ASK ME TO RESURRECT HER BEFORE YOU BURIED HER?!" and Sam is like "BECAUSE HER DEATH IS FUELING DEAN'S DECENT INTO MADNESS!"
Uh, okay, so I made that last part up. I don't know why Sam and Dean didn't seek Angel help for Charlie, especially since Sam knew exactly where Cas was. It makes no sense whatsover. And before you say that it's probably because Cas is fallen and his wings a broken, may I remind you that Gadreel was in the same boat when he resurrected both Cas AND Charlie in two back to back episodes. I mean, is there a rule about how fresh the corpse has to be?! We're never told! It's not like Charlie was killed with the colt. I mean, COME ON.
Okay, uh... I'm supposed to have my drunk hat on, not my critical hat.
Anyway, Sam is all like "we're going to shut this motherf***er down! but then his phone makes a very convincing BOOPBOOP noise and he discovers that Charlie cracked the code before she died...and well...it's hard to turn away from a project when it looks like it might actually be possible to achieve something with it.
Of course, Cas is all like "BUT DEAN SAID!" and Sam is like "DEAN IS GOING CRAZY! GO LOOK AFTER HIM!" And Cas is like "ugh, FINE!"
Then Rowena is like, "GO KILL CROWLEY LIKE YOU SAID!" and Sam is like "UGH, FINE!"
MEANWHILE IN MURDER TOWN!
Dean is going a murdering - first stop, the police station, because of COURSE the Stynes have the town in their pocket.
Oh, hey, I didn't talk at all about Baby!Styne and his plot...uh, it was a sad one... he is like a little Sam, who doesn't want to be part of a murder family and wants to run away to the west coast - but unlike Sam, his family will actually kill him if they find out his plans, instead of just disowning him and then checking up on him like sad puppies that didn't mean to bite you and really regret it, but also don't know how to apologize. And his family thinks they are being all family-ish by capturing his bully and then making Baby!Styne murder him to both prove that they love him and that he loves them....only instead it makes Baby!Styne super sad, because he knows that the bully was just trying to fit in and made bad choices and didn't deserve to die. And everything is heartbreaking forever.
Also, the whatshisface Styne was like "They had me in this bunker that was full of magic! Let's go raid it! WOOT! And oh man... so much for the wards on the bunker, I guess. They must only apply for people that the Winchesters haven't brought there - which means that Crowley can probably come and go as he pleases too right now. Not smart, boys.
BACK TO MURDER!
Uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuunf.
Dean starts off small, somewhat merciful, and still damn hot, when he tells the police officer that he'll be free in thirty seconds and then gets the keys to the cuffs in thirty seconds by taking down the cop while he's still handcuffed to the chair. Then he goes after the Sheriff and it's still awesome town - but non-stynes get to live.
I also love love love these lines:
Sheriff: "[the Stynes] are like gods around here"
Dean: "Yeah, well, I kill gods."
- SO AWESOME.
Dean gets the name and address of the Stynes and then goes to TOWN. AND IT IS AWESOME.
The way he takes out the first few guys is just awesome. Stab, drop corpse without looking at it, continue walking. So hot.
(Side story: Back at the tender age of 21, my BFF introduced me to anime by showing me Record of Lodoss War. There's a berserker character in it that I absolutely fell in love with - and he had this great scene/line in one episode when the crew have to get into some place but there are two guards at the door, so the Berserker just walks up to them and slaughters them both with two slices of his great sword, and then he walks past the corpses as they fall, and when the rest of the crew is like "OMG", he says, "They were in our way." And man, this is what that was like, and it was awesome.)
Dean gets the old plastic-bag over the head once he gets in the door though. And that slows him down temporarily.
Back to Sam! Sam is killing Crowleykins. Or, tryig to. Rowena wants him to do it "her way" which is apparently a devil's trap bullet and a hex bag.
Speaking of Murder!Porn. I LOVE the fact that Sam isn't apologetic about what he's doing. Crowley tries to get sympathy, telling Sam how he reordered hell after Sam gave him a taste of humanity, how Crowley has been trying to be the good guy... and I LIKE the fact that Sam is like "YOU HAVE KILLED PEOPLE I LOVE AND DONE VERY VERY EVIL THINGS!" A
And, you might make a case for whether everyone deserves a change at redemption or not - but I love the fact that Sam hasn't forgiven Crowley. I love the fact that even when Sam was "curing" Crowley back in S8, the plan was always to kill him afterward. I love the fact that Sam is merciless, I guess... which is odd, because I know that I also love Sam for the times that he DOES show mercy. So, maybe I'm a hypocrite - or maybe I just think some people are irredemable. I don't know. The point is that as much as I know a large part of fandom loves Crowley, and as much as I like Mark Sheppard, I have personally gotten a bit frustrated with understanding why the Winchesters haven't managed to kill him yet.
What I really love about this episode is that it DOES tell us a little bit of WHY they haven't managed it yet - Crowley is powerful. He coughs a bit, makes his case to Sam, but when that doesn't fly, Crowley decides that enough is enough. If Sam won't grant him a chance at redemption (whether he honestly wants it or not), then Crowley will embrace the evil.
We finally see Crowley's eyes change while he's in his regular meatsuit. And then he gets up and escapes - letting Sam live, under the condition that Sam knows that he's alive purely on Crowley's mercy... which is a nice "fuck you" from Crowley, I must admit.
Also, just an FYI: I don't think that the knife would have worked even if Sam had gotten his hands on it. We've seen in the past that the knife doesn't work on powerful demons (alistair, lilith)... I've doubted for YEARS that it would work on Crowley, and I still doubt it. I'd like the show to prove it, but they'll probably save that for a later date.
Meanwhile, Dean returns to MURDER TOWN!
I love Dean's argument when they wake him - they can't kill him, because he'll wake up with blackeyes and they'll all be killed. If they leave him human, then some of them might have a chance, given that humans are fallible. I also love the camera shot of Dean upsidedown on the white table. Beautiful.
And sure enough, as soon as they cut into him, it's super-strength murder time! I AM HERE FOR THE MURDER!
Everyone dies, but not before Daddy!Styne gives Dean the hint that there's a faction headed to the Bunker. So, Dean heads to the bunker....
Sam calls Rowena to give her the heads up that Crowley got free, is alive, and is probably going to kill her. She insists that Sam still try to get the job done and hangs up.... but she is clearly not happy about this turn of events.
Meanwhile, the Styne's are pillaging the bunker - not cool, man. Baby!Styne is all like "hey books. Oh hey, these people are people and have family and loved ones... I do not want to damage their lovely home." But his cousins are like "READING AND CARING ABOUT PEOPLE IS FOR PUSSIES AND IF YOU WERE A REAL MAN YOU'D BURN SHIT!" This, my friends, is toxic masculinity... be warned.
I'm super sad that the books and Dean's albums and photos got coated in kerosine. That is going to damage things greatly. Sad times forever. (says the historian with friends in the document/artifact-preservation business).
Before they light the match though, Dean comes in soaked in (hot) blood and looking murderous (hot.)
And then it's killing time again! I love the whole speech the Styne gives about how he's had upgrades and blah blah blah... and then Dean is like "but you still have one brain" and shoots him in it. It's very classic Indian Jones, and I love it.
(Also loved Dean's comment of "seven nipples for the ladies, or the fellas, I don't judge." The only thing I love more than emotionless killing machines is NONJUDGEMENTAL emotionless killing machines.)
Of course, then we see how once the murder train is in motion, it's not so easy to stop... because while Baby!Styne pleads for his life and tells Dean that he hated his family and he's not one of them, and he won't ever be one of them, Dean is all like "you've got evil in your blood and therefore you will eventually be evil, so you die."
And while Dean might be projecting here, I can't help but wince, because there's another character on this show that canonically has evil in their blood... and they have proven time and again that it doesn't make them evil. And if Dean is changing his mind on that, it is bad times ahead.
Dean shoots Baby!Styne in the head too...so, it's a merciful death, at least, because it is quick... also, right before he does it, he gives the kid a slight moment of hope by looking like he might actually be listening. So, you know, of all the ways to kill that kid, Dean was probably chose the most kind way, if there is such a thing.
Cas doesn't agree when he comes in though. He is all like "You shouldn't have killed that kid, this proves that you are on the murder train and it is bad times ahead for everyone!" And Dean is like, "no it doesn't. I kill things for a living. This is normal."
And I really do love Cas's speach about why he has to save Dean... about how Dean might be able to go centuries, like Cain did, without murdering, and maybe Sam will die before Dean started murdering everyone in sight and so Sam will never have to see it - but that Cas will, because Cas is also a (somewhat) immortal being.
I think part of the reason I love the speech is because you see immortality not as a good thing "now Dean and Cas can be immortal together and live happily ever after", but as as horrible thing, where Cas knows that eventually he'll see Dean become the thing that Dean hates the most, that Dean would RATHER DIE than become...and so, even though Cas will live forever (unless murdered), Cas would also prefer that Dean died at the end of his short human life.
So, of course, Dean then proceeds to beat the shit out of Castiel. :(
Still, I mean, Cas beat the shit out of Dean in S8, so fairsies? even steven? yes? no? no.... probably no.
Dean pulling hte angel blade was scary - I knew he hadn't killed Cas when he stabbed it down though, because there was no VHOOOM sound and blue light. Still... it's his BFF... everything is rotten in the state of Dean.
And that's where we are moving into the season finale...with Dean on the murder train to demonville, Crowley pissed off and on the loose, Rowena untrustworthy, Sam desperate, Castiel out of this depth... it should be interesting.
Brief note about the preview for next week: I know it might be foilers, but "DEAN IS BECOME DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS!"
As usual, let me know your thoughts in comments and such... I feel like I missed a lot of things, but I was very distracted by attractive men killing people...
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2015-05-14 01:48 pm (UTC)I have no idea why 1. Sam and Dean think bringing every supernatural being or dangerous human being to the bunker is a good idea. I can buy that the bunker when it was warded against every evil thing, that it meant every supernatural thing, because judging the state of a human conscience is tricky. But the door should have been stronger, because REALLY?
Killing Baby!Styne does not bode well for Sam. Dean has wavered on the supernatural=evil argument and he tends to fall on the if it's supernatural then it should die side. Sam's tainted blood was an issue for Dean, before so I can see where being influenced by the MOC will push the balance to killing Sam is necessary and good.
I too liked Cas's speech. It did put it in perspective that Cas will have to watch Dean turn into something very bad. All in all pretty intense.
no subject
Date: 2015-05-14 05:55 pm (UTC)And yes about bringing things back to the bunker. I mean, when I believed that the bunkers wards would "reactivate" once the creatures left and they wouldn't be able to find it again, that was a different story - but we've seen both Gadreel and the Styne's return. Gadreel was alright, because I highly doubted the bunker was warded against angels (plus, Cas needed to be able to come and go). But Sam and Dean really have to learn not to give away the location of their secret bunker to every tom, dick, and harry.
Also, when Cain was on his murder spree, he was specifically killing his own descendants... of which both Dean and SAM are two - so if Dean is all like "evil in the blood means evil" and like-minded about Cain's descendants having too high a capacity for evil then that's Sam through and through.
no subject
Date: 2015-05-14 10:16 pm (UTC)And on everything you said about the funeral scene. And definitely, yes, what you said about Kevin and Charlie’s deaths and why they stick out so much…
I have no idea why they didn’t call Cas in. I mean, yeah, okay, we don’t want to leave Rowena unsupervised, but…I would think that resurrecting friend outranks guarding witch on the priority scale. It makes no sense!
Okay, trying not to think too hard about the plot hole…
I did love how obviously Sam was conflicted about ‘I should stop because I’ve already gotten one person I love killed but SO FREAKING CLOSE and this is kind of sort of her dying wish and—ffffff okay, we’re doing this.’ Just…very good facial expressions and visible struggle there.
I really love Rowena playing peanut gallery. “I do love a good intrigue!”
Poor, poor Baby Styne. We hardly knew ye. And now that you mention it, those parallels are awesome, and make the focus on him a little more than ‘here’s a sacrificial lamb to show just how far off the deep end Dean’s gone.’ So I very much appreciate them, and I’m glad you pointed them out.
I’m pretty sure you’re right about how the wards on the bunker work…maybe it’s like vampires on Buffy, where once they’ve been invited in once they have total access until the place is purified/the threshold/wards renewed/rebuilt…
It is kind of interesting, though, that Gadreel was able to access the bunker in his other vessel, when the bartender had never been there before. So, it’s obviously not necessarily tied to a physical body, but to something metaphysical. Which means that any possessing entity that has been in the bunker can enter regardless of meatsuit, which could be all kinds of fun in the future, I’m sure—also, I wonder if it plays in reverse, too, if Gadreel’s bartender or Jimmy, if either came back from the dead and had sole custody of his body, could enter without his angel…or if an entity who had never been there before, like…I dunno, Meg (I know she’s dead, but basically all the convenient examples are) could gain access by possessing…because everyone else I can think of is dead or already possessed, Linda Tran.
…I pick the weirdest details to overthink…
“I kill gods” was SUPER AWESOME, yes.
Crowley going full-on villain again was GLORIOUS. I love Crowley Triumphant, so…yes. Crowley’s victory/whatever you want to call it here pleased me very much.
And, yes, echoing everything you said about Sam and mercy—I think it’s because, by and large, he’s the most forgiving forgiver to ever forgive, but showing that there are some people even he can’t/won’t forgive…it emphasizes both the antagonist’s evil and Sam’s other merciful acts, I think. Basically, Beware the Nice Ones is an awesome trope and I love when Sam shows evidence of it. And especially in a scene like this, where Crowley twists the whole ‘mercy’ construct on its head, with that whole “I want you to know that the only reason you’re still alive is because I chose to spare you.” and just. I love this scene. So much.
I agree with basically everything you’re saying about the Dean half of this episode, both with the Shreveport stuff and then back in the bunker and all its implications.
Cas’s speech was amazing, yes. For all the reasons you said. And I really like that the parallel with Goodbye, Stranger was obviously there, but they did it subtly…sometimes, this show can get a little heavy-handed with parallels so it was nice that they didn’t overtly mention it, didn’t explicitly reference any dialogue, just…it was there.
Yesss the promo made me happy. I know it will end in tears but considering the guest star I can’t help but look forward to it anyway…though I do feel like there’s a lot that needs to be fit in somehow…like all the obvious stuff, plus whoever Crowley was reaching out to regarding Rowena last week, plus Metatron and the demon tablet (unless he died of gangrene or something because really you should not put your fingers in an untreated gunshot wound you are human now…eh, he’s probably smart enough to take himself to a hospital once he sigiled himself so Cas couldn’t track him). Anyway. I guess we’ll see how it all plays out next week!
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Date: 2015-05-15 02:21 am (UTC)Same! It's a hard one to ignore, but I am doing my best.
Just…very good facial expressions and visible struggle there.
Agreed. I didn't really take the time in this review to praise acting - but both Jared and Jensen did a phenomenal job in this episode. Jared especially, given how desperate and in turmoil Sam is.
…I pick the weirdest details to overthink…
No! It's interesting! And yeah, it definitely seems to be tired to the metaphysical rather than the body. All very intriguing. (Also why Kevin could haunt the bunker and wasn't immediately banished from it because he was a ghost.)
he’s the most forgiving forgiver to ever forgive, but showing that there are some people even he can’t/won’t forgive…it emphasizes both the antagonist’s evil and Sam’s other merciful acts, I think.
Agreed agreed, 100% agreed - with the rest of your paragraph too. It was a very well constructed scene between the two characters.
though I do feel like there’s a lot that needs to be fit in somehow…like all the obvious stuff, plus whoever Crowley was reaching out to regarding Rowena last week, plus Metatron and the demon tablet (unless he died of gangrene or something because really you should not put your fingers in an untreated gunshot wound you are human now…eh, he’s probably smart enough to take himself to a hospital once he sigiled himself so Cas couldn’t track him). Anyway. I guess we’ll see how it all plays out next week!
It's true. I had forgotten that Crowley was working behind the scenes about Rowena as well... and we've got Metatron on the loose somewhere. I'm excited about the guest star and REALLY hope they keep continuity on that character (they don't have the best track record with me, given what they did to the reapers.)
I'm guessing that Metatron will probably be the thing that goes wrong after things go right? Like, they'll solve one problem, and then suddenly, "BUT WAIT!" and everything will be horrible forever.
...that's my prediction anyway.
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Date: 2015-05-15 01:42 am (UTC)Why are people thinking all the Stynes are dead? I would figure there are more branches to that family tree.
When Sam had decided to shut the 'save Dean by the Book of the Damned' down, and then got Charlie's email--Jared did a fantastic job of showing all the difficult choices he had to make...but I don't see how he can outmanuever Rowena, his only threat against her is to kill her, and she knows he won't do that because only she can read the book.
The return of truly evil Crowley was the best character arc in a long time. When he decided to let Sam live I could hear the underlying idea of 'I will let you live to see what I do to the world so you will feel guilty for returning me to myself'...like Sam needs something else to feel guilty for...
And yes, when Sam called Crowley a monster, I was thinking that I'd never forgiven Crowley for murdering Sarah Blake.
But Charlie's funeral pyre scene was so sad...and then chilling when Dean said Sam should be on the pyre, not Charlie...the real Dean would never have said that...
It just occurred to me that as devastating as the next episode will be, what is worse is the 4 months till we see what happens next...
Augh!!!
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Date: 2015-05-15 02:13 am (UTC)This is what I figure too. They are a good enemy that can "crop up" again in the future, when needed. I'm sure their presence in this season has ended, but that doesn't mean anything for seasons to come.
Jared did a fantastic job of showing all the difficult choices he had to make...but I don't see how he can outmanuever Rowena, his only threat against her is to kill her, and she knows he won't do that because only she can read the book.
Agreed agreed. I figure she's going to get the upper hand in the end - but then, I could always be wrong - finales are tough to predict.
And yes, Jared was great.
When he decided to let Sam live I could hear the underlying idea of 'I will let you live to see what I do to the world so you will feel guilty for returning me to myself'...like Sam needs something else to feel guilty for...
"like Sam needs something else to feel guilty for" indeed. I think this is part of my slight problem with these seasons of SPN, they tend to heap on the angst without ever really giving us a reprieve from it. I don't know. I mean, I still like the show fine, I just wouldn't mind a chance to let the characters (and myself) breathe a little at some point.
And yes, when Sam called Crowley a monster, I was thinking that I'd never forgiven Crowley for murdering Sarah Blake.
Exactly. The only way I would possibly think about forgiving Crowley is if Sam actually DID turn him human again and Crowley was genuinely appalled at his behaviour as a demon. As long as Crowley's a demon though, and unapologetic/remorseless for his previous actions, then he does not deserve forgiveness.
and then chilling when Dean said Sam should be on the pyre, not Charlie...the real Dean would never have said that...
Yeah, when Sam was then like "you're going to turn into something that's not you!" I was like "man, he already has."
It just occurred to me that as devastating as the next episode will be, what is worse is the 4 months till we see what happens next...
:( Yup.
What an episode
Date: 2015-05-15 05:06 am (UTC)As for Dean's harsh words in the burial, on social media has been a discussion it was only because of the MoC why he said that, or Dean truly felt those words. I believe he felt angry, because Sam lied to him and this lead to Charlie's death, but the MoC increased that feeling. Probably the 'former' Dean would have said something similar, but without being so cruel.
Oh and also I read that it was the spell in the hex bag that made Crowly to turned into 100% evil again. Is an interesting theory, but why Rowena would ever do that? Isn't her intention to kill her son? Sometimes I've no idea what that witch thinks. Is someone unpredictable to me.
Lastly, I've no fucking idea... do you allow to curse? I'm sorry couldn't find another word to describe what I'm feeling. But, if this episode was so emtotional, what to expect for next week?
Re: What an episode
Date: 2015-05-21 04:15 am (UTC)Btw, I also have something for hot killers, will people think are we crazy?
In the words of Becky - "if this is wrong, I don't want to be right."
I think it was only because of the MoC that Dean said that. I mean, yes, he was angry, but they obviously weren't TRUE words.
Interesting theory about the hex bag! Rowena did seem to want Crowley to be more powerful, so I don't think it was TOO far fetched a theory.
Lastly, I've no fucking idea... do you allow to curse? I'm sorry couldn't find another word to describe what I'm feeling.
I definitely allow cursing. I know that how sometimes it's the only way to convey how you are feeling. Also, it doesn't offend me in the slightest. :)
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Date: 2015-05-15 07:26 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2015-05-21 04:16 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2015-05-15 10:57 am (UTC)I accidentally saw promo pics for the finale and though I’m mad I got spoiled, I’m also cautiously optimistic now. But I do have to say that this season is not much different from the last. At this point I wouldn’t even be surprised if Dean became a demon again – the writers have not been making an effort.
But hey – I have more good things to say about the show :) AND Dean was awesome from start to finish.
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Re: I don't know why Sam and Dean didn't seek Angel help for Charlie, especially since Sam knew exactly where Cas was. It makes no sense whatsover. And before you say that it's probably because Cas is fallen and his wings a broken, may I remind you that Gadreel was in the same boat when he resurrected both Cas AND Charlie in two back to back episodes. I mean, is there a rule about how fresh the corpse has to be?! We're never told! It's not like Charlie was killed with the colt. I mean, COME ON.
We could speculate that Castiel is not strong enough to resurrect people simply because he is much younger than Gadreel? Gadreel is closer to archangel, IMO.
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Re: Also, the whatshisface Styne was like "They had me in this bunker that was full of magic! Let's go raid it! WOOT! And oh man... so much for the wards on the bunker, I guess.
Yes, this! What’s up with that? Come on! You are not supposed to be able to get there without the key.
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Re: Back at the tender age of 21, my BFF introduced me to anime by showing me Record of Lodoss War. There's a berserker character in it that I absolutely fell in love with
I was in love with cartoon Batman. Have you seen that manly jaw? Cartoon Batman was my hero :) I was quite a bit younger than 21 though :)
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Re: Crowley is powerful. He coughs a bit, makes his case to Sam, but when that doesn't fly, Crowley decides that enough is enough.
I was actually quite surprised. When I saw the red the red eyes, I thought that the hex bag was rather a “make Crowlwy a mean SOB again” hex bag, not a “kill Crowley hex bag”. I thought that that was Rowena’s plan from the beginning.
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Re: Everyone dies, but not before Daddy!Styne gives Dean the hint that there's a faction headed to the Bunker. So, Dean heads to the bunker....
I’m SO glad that they decided to wrap the Stynes’ storyline early. They were interesting and definitely charismatic, but once it was revealed that they were the Frankensteins the story lost any and all appeal for me.
(By the way though – I once went to see this play http://ntlive.nationaltheatre.org.uk/productions/16546-frankenstein and it was AWESOME! And I’m not even a hardcore fan of Cumberbatch or Jonny Lee Miller fan.)
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Re: Also loved Dean's comment of "seven nipples for the ladies, or the fellas, I don't judge."
Me too! Classic Dean. Aaah…
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Re: Still, I mean, Cas beat the shit out of Dean in S8, so fairsies? even steven? yes? no? no.... probably no.
I thought it was fair and poetic.
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P.S.: Thank you for making yet another episode better :)
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Date: 2015-05-21 04:24 am (UTC)I agree with you about the TOO MUCH DRAMA, it's actually how I've felt about SPN as a whole the past few seasons. They've gotten a bit too soap opera-y for my tastes. I don't see it as a problem with the acting ability though, I see it as a problem of being inundated by too much drama in general by the writers. The show would be served better if the drama was lighter to the touch.
At this point I wouldn’t even be surprised if Dean became a demon again – the writers have not been making an effort.
Again, agreed. This was very much just an extended S9, only with the brothers slowly coming together instead of slowly splitting apart.
We could speculate that Castiel is not strong enough to resurrect people simply because he is much younger than Gadreel? Gadreel is closer to archangel, IMO.
That's a cool headcanon. I'll borrow it until I'm told otherwise.
I was in love with cartoon Batman. Have you seen that manly jaw? Cartoon Batman was my hero :) I was quite a bit younger than 21 though :)
I stopped watching anime when I was around 27 and had a dream about cuddling one of the characters (JUST CUDDLING) and then I woke up and realized that the character was technically only 14 years old, and I felt like a pedophile. :P
I was actually quite surprised. When I saw the red the red eyes, I thought that the hex bag was rather a “make Crowlwy a mean SOB again” hex bag, not a “kill Crowley hex bag”. I thought that that was Rowena’s plan from the beginning.
Yeah, someone else had that theory too! It's an interesting one!
SIDENOTE: I too have seen the NTL production of Frankenstein, with Cumberbatch as the Monster and Miller as the Doctor. It was REALLY GOOD, I agree... and I'm not that huge of a live-theatre fan (it gives me second hand anxiety, in that I get stage fight on behalf of the actors.)
P.S.: Thank you for making yet another episode better :)
No problem! I'm so sorry it took me so long to respond. I missed a whole swatch of comments in the past week because I was sucked into some sort of mind-vortex (seriously, I don't think I was depressed, but for some reason I forgot to do nearly every task that I was supposed to do.)
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Date: 2015-05-21 07:37 am (UTC)Glad you joined the living :) Hope you're all right.
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Re: I agree with you about the TOO MUCH DRAMA, it's actually how I've felt about SPN as a whole the past few seasons. They've gotten a bit too soap opera-y for my tastes. I don't see it as a problem with the acting ability though, I see it as a problem of being inundated by too much drama in general by the writers. The show would be served better if the drama was lighter to the touch.
Too much drama in the drama department? :) Scenes in the bunker have become especially soapy, IMO. " Supernatural is filmed before a live studio audience."
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Re: SIDENOTE: I too have seen the NTL production of Frankenstein, with Cumberbatch as the Monster and Miller as the Doctor. It was REALLY GOOD, I agree...
Yeah, that's the one I saw. A friend of mine went to see both - this one and the one with the roles reversed - and she said she liked the one with Cumberbatch as the Monster more.
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Date: 2015-05-21 07:49 am (UTC)Well, you've got plenty of time to catch up! ;) And I promise whenever you watch it, I'll try to respond to your comment quicker.
Glad you joined the living :) Hope you're all right.
Thanks! I honestly don't know what the heck happened. Mind-vortex, I'm telling you. In good news though, I'm having an alright week this week, so far. Yay!
Too much drama in the drama department? :) Scenes in the bunker have become especially soapy, IMO. " Supernatural is filmed before a live studio audience."
Ha! Yeah, that's the thing... I mean, I really try not to bring up the early season's like "back in the good ol' days" type thing... but, I mean, back in the earlier seasons, they were much lighter on the melodrama, and it made those more soapy seasons SPECIAL and less...over the top. I mean, when Dean nearly cried in S1's Shadow episode ("I want us to be a family again" speech) - it was an EVENT.
I think it's also a matter of the directors going too mushy in the camera angles and the composer putting too mushy a soundtrack on things. It's like when the special music starts on Full House and you know the "fatherly" speech is coming...every. single. episode.
Anyway, I still enjoy the hell out of the show - it's just on a slightly different level than I used to.
Yeah, that's the one I saw. A friend of mine went to see both - this one and the one with the roles reversed - and she said she liked the one with Cumberbatch as the Monster more.
Cool! I'm glad I chose that one then. :)
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Date: 2015-05-21 07:53 am (UTC)Oh, I am watching it tonight - I just got a whole day of work ahead of me before I can do that :)
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Date: 2015-05-21 07:57 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2015-05-21 08:25 am (UTC)I was wondering what you were still doing up.Oh, it wasn't THAT late :)Don't let the bedbugs bite :)
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Date: 2015-10-25 08:08 pm (UTC)Me: We could speculate that Castiel is not strong enough to resurrect people simply because he is much younger than Gadreel? Gadreel is closer to archangel, IMO.
You: That's a cool headcanon. I'll borrow it until I'm told otherwise.
Rewatching season 5 finale, when wait a second! Castiel DID bring Bobby back! Yeah, he's been constantly changing since then, but at least by the end of season 5 he was powerful enough.
Yup, I came back here to share :)
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Date: 2015-10-25 08:21 pm (UTC)That beings said, I still call shenanigans on the whole thing. :P
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Date: 2015-10-25 08:23 pm (UTC)