Quick Reaction: 7x19 Of Grave Importance

[hells_half_acre]

Oh man...so, I was going to watch this episode on the east coast feed, but then it was a a sunny day and my sister wanted to go to the bookstore, eat ice cream on Granville Island, and then drink sangria and play ukulele on the roof...and really, who was I to say no to all that?

But, I still saw the episode before it aired in the west, thanks to my friend's PVR (I am cat/house-sitting this week.)



Right now, I can tell you my quick reaction is to feel MUCH the same as Sam and Dean are feeling at the end of the episode, so obviously the writers did a fantastic job on having a story from Bobby's POV, but leaving me with Sam'n'Dean feels.

But, let's begin at the beginning...

FOOD on the COTW (that's Car Of The Week). I love scenes like this - "domestic scenes", because this is the equivalent of a Winchester family dinner. 

And a phonecall from Annie. I want to go through my old caps and look at Dean's cell contacts lists again - because he always has so many names in there that we never see, and I want to know if Annie was one of them and for how long...it's nice to see another hunter. It's why I liked Garth. I kind of always want them to explore Hunter society a bit more...I've always been curious about how Hunters react to Sam and Dean...obviously, according to Annie, they don't treat them any differently than other Hunters. Which, I guess is a good thing...

I liked how Dean took that phone call, and when Annie brought up Bobby, he gave this glance to Sam and then tried not to mention Bobby's name out loud...it was totally a "I don't want to talk about my feelings in front of my brother" moment. Oh Dean. :P

Let's see...then the stupid kids get killed...and Annie investigates...

And then we get another Winchester scene! Yay! They are being stood up. Haha. Oh I'm jumping ahead.

So, um...Annie slept with Bobby, Dean, AND Sam?! Awesome. I would like to be Annie please. How does Sam know that she slept with Bobby? Was that their pillow talk when her and Soulless!Sam got it on? I love how this whole conversation. I also love how Sam says, "she was stressed and I...had no soul." Hahaha, oh Sam, I love you so much.

(Also, is it just me, or do you picture Dean sleeping with Annie when he was a teenager? I totally see her as the older sexy woman seducing a teenage Dean. She'd be any 18 year-old's wet-dream.  It's either that, or it would have had to have been while Sam was at Stanford, since otherwise Dean and Sam know all of each other's conquests - except, obviously, Sam's soulless year.)

Oh yeah, the creepy house is totally the same one as Playthings in S2. I'm sure everyone caught that. :) 

Anyway...it's interesting to see how impotent Bobby is as a ghost...because remember that episode in S4 when Sam and Dean ghostified themselves and learned how to move things telekinetically in one afternoon?  Mind you, they had a teacher. Bobby can't be there all the time though - and I mainly say that because at the end he acts as though he doesn't know that the boys slept with Annie too (have I mentioned that it must have been nice to be Annie? Mind you, this means the curse of sleeping with Sam still holds true)....even though Dean had the flask at the restaurant when he and Sam discussed it. Also...I mean, he's got to be able to choose when he appears, because I'm sure there's things about the boys that he does not want to see...

So, where was I? Oh yeah...the boys go to the house to investimagate. And...Annie's dead. Aw shucks. I was kind of hoping she was alive somehow. But no...it seems rather unfair that such an obviously badass hunter could be taken out by a ghost, even a super-charged ghost...but I guess that's part of the hunting life, anything really can be your death.

I did fall for the misdirect with the convict vs. the dapper dude. Also, that ghost that ran at Bobby scared me. 

I wish we had seen Dean in the shower *is shallow* but at least we got to see wet Dean in a single layer afterwards...oh yeah....*pauses show* *appreciates* *contemplates general sense of sexual frustration* *unpauses show*

But YAY Bobby for writing on the mirror!

Oh, jumping back for a minute...it kind of annoys me that Annie said "do me a solid..." to a dude who died 80 years ago...um, maybe use phrases that were around 80 years ago? Thanks.

Anyway, YAY Bobby for writing on the mirror! I loved Dean and Sam's reactions...Jared and Jensen are so good with their reactions this episode, because they are so CONFLICTED! They are happy to see Bobby, but they are horrified that he's a ghost - it goes against everything that BOBBY raised them to believe is right. So, how can they justify not putting Bobby to rest, especially since they know what's tying him to the world...and there's the fact that they love him, and want him around, but at what eventual cost? I'm getting ahead of myself....

Actually, I'm jumping all over the place here - let me launch into some timeline stuff:
Fact #1: Bobby passes out when he manages to do something.
Fact #2: It took Bobby a month to realize he was dead and still around...does this mean that he missed the month that Dean and Sam spent SOLELY grieving? Did he realize he was dead and then immediately disappear Dean's beer?
Fact #3: Bobby passed out for 2 weeks after he knocked a book off the table. That means that he didn't see what happened once Dean found Cas. Also, how did Bobby know about Cas? DID he know about Cas? Did he know about the Hunter who was healed by "Emmanuel" and just not know it was Cas? If so, that means that 7x10 and 7x17 happened within 3 months of each other and possibly an even shorter time period. 
Possibilities: If Bobby passed out for an indeterminate time whenever he successfully did something that means that he may have not been around after 1)The beer, 2)The helpful page, 3)Sam went crazy, 4)the sword. 
Fact #4: If Bobby passed out for 2 weeks after knocking that book off the table, that means that 7x18 occurred 2 weeks after 7x17 because Bobby moved the sword in 7x18. 

Cool....time-lining! Isn't it fun?!?! Seriously, I love this crap. It's like logical puzzles, only less annoying.

So, back to the house! Annie and Victoria chat it up...and um...if Victoria sent Annie a message? How did that work? Was Annie at the house and Victoria saw her and left a message on her phone? Was Annie someplace else and Victoria sent a message to her and she somehow tracked it down to that area even though there was no possible way to do that? 

Anywho...we simultaneously find out what this week's misdirect was - two more teenagers get offed - and we learn that ghosts can off other ghosts...which means sense, I mean, Mary did it back in 1x09...only it destroyed her rather than make her stronger. I know they've been doing it on another show that I won't mention for fear of spoiling it for someone who hasn't seen it (I don't watch the show, but my friend does, and she tells me things). Anyway...interesting clarification/addition to the mythology. Also, it was freaky and cool to see the deterioration of ghosts.

So, yeah...Bobby and Dean come and are able to speak with Victoria...and that was neat. And then it's off to burn the bad guy! Yay! Only the bad guy puts a key or something in Sam's pocket and oh noes....meanwhile Bobby has secreted his flask to a drawer so that he can stay in the house with Annie. And yeah, there's a whole bunch of ghostly pickpocketing going on.

I did like how smoothly they had to do it though - I always forget when they do the ghost-Bobby scenes that Jared and Jensen have to act like Jim Beaver isn't two feet beside them yelling at them. And I have to say - it's really hard to do that. I've tried to ignore people while doing extra work, and it's really hard not to glance at people when they're standing RIGHT THERE. I mean, as an extra, I think I'm allowed to glance at people, so it's not a huge deal if I do give them a glance - obviously, ordinarily people passing on the street DO glance at each other, but seriously - try it next time you are walking around or hanging out with your friends - just decide that you're going to not even look at someone. It's difficult.

So, Sam and Dean run off to salt and burn the bad guy....and Sam is doing internet research in the car. Which to me, means that he's got one of those USB internet sticks...because you cannot leach off other people's wireless networks when you are speeding down the highway at 60 miles/hour. 

I liked the fact that the ghost actually sped up the car rather than make the engine die or something else stupid.

And then they empty their pocket shoot the ghost back to the house and then carry on...

And how can the ghost kill Bobby when he doesn't have access to his bones? They made it seem as though the ghost moved the bones into the fire telekinetically while he fisted the victim-ghost...but he didn't have access to the Bobby's bones, so how would that have worked?

I guess we don't have to really worry about it though, because Dean and Sam are speedy burners. 

Then they can see Bobby! WOOt! Only...it is AWKWARD.

And I like that about this show - the fact that it's not WONDERFUL AND AMAZING that Bobby is still around. They aren't overjoyed - they don't burst into tears and tell him how much they miss him...instead they shift on their feet and are HORRIBLY CONFLICTED. Because 1)Ghosts are bad, and 2)They love Bobby...

What memory do they want of Bobby? The hunter who died in battle? The one they gave a Hunter's funeral to, believing that his soul was already in heaven drinking a beer with Ash at Harvelles? (And how much do I love Dean for calling it 'Harvelles'? Answer: A lot.)...or do they want the Bobby who they can't touch, who is against nature, who is slowly going to go crazy and whatever happens will cause things to "not end well."? 

I feel for Bobby too of course, because he's Dean in 2x01. He wants to stay and protect his family, he wants to HELP, and he wants his family to be HAPPY that he stayed to help. He wants, fundamentally, to still be alive - and if he can't be alive, he wants to act just like he is.

But he's not - and I think that's what Annie understood better than him. Annie chalked it up to the fact that she didn't have 'the boys', she only had the work and she couldn't do that anymore - and now she wanted to rest, to be nothing. But, I think, fundamentally, Annie understood that death meant an END to things, not the beginning of different things. She understood that to be dead meant that her time should be over. 

I do think that the boys need Bobby though - I think they are floundering. They can't tell what Dick is up to. We can't even be sure that they have the right numbers - they don't know what Dick is doing and Bobby does! (And FYI: That would have been my first question to Bobby - not the awkward "why didn't you go to heaven?" question, but the "tell me everything you know about Dick Roman...awesome...oops, flask in the fire. Sorry Bobby, I LOVE YOU!"...but yeah, none of my loved ones are ghosts (at least I hope not), so perhaps I shouldn't judge.

Interesting times, to say the least....

Oh, also minor nitpick: Dean did something at the end that I CAN'T STAND, which is to repeat the last sentence of a speech twice. "What are the odds...what. are. the. odds." I hate that. They usually do it all the time in dramatic angsty heartfelt speeches on TV.

And yeah...awkward ending is awkward...but it's way more true to character and therefore realistic that way. 

It's nice to have Jim Beaver back on my screen.



So, thoughts? Feelings?

Next week looks cool too, but I won't spoil the preview for any of you strict spoiler-phobes out there.

Comments

[franztastisch]

Haha oh man, I lvoed tht all three of them had slept with Annie. And I totally see Dean sleepig with her while Sam was at Stanford. And anyway, that makes the most sense as that's basically the only significant period of time where neither John and Sam were hunting with him, I think? ANYWAY. I like that. I think it's funny. And Annie totally would be the sexy older woman. THOUGH I wonder what she thought of Sam, cos she wouldn't have known that he had no soul the first time she met him - it's not like Sam would tell her; "Hi, yeah I'll totally help. Oh and fyi I'm currently without a soul" - so her view of seeing him again would be pretty interesting.

As to Dean saying it's unnatural for Bobby to be there. Well he's right. And he's also a bit of a hypocrite, but not really. Cos bascially, Dean has only made ONE decision to come back/bring someone else back/mess up the order of stuff, and that was his deal to get Sam back. He actively chose that knowing, as Bobby does, the consequences. Every other time, it has been someone elses decision; John, Heaven, Cas, Gabe, Michael, whoever. Sam has never, as far as I can remember, actively succeeded in "messing up the order" himself - again, other people made the decisions (Dean, Cas, Lucifer, Michael, God/Joshua etc) or he didn't succeed (deal attempts).

So yeah. Also, I thought it was weird that Bobby said that he thought that the was "nothing" after death despite the fact that he knows two of the only people in the world who can attest to the existance of both heaven and hell. And I'd find it really weird if heaven and hell were exclusively for those who passed on willingly. Cos seriously, who's pass on willingly to hell? Even if you didn't know how bad it could be, it's still hell.

But overall, I didn't think this was the worlds most interesting episode. Dean just out of the show was lovely though. :P

[franztastisch]

Oh wow. And aparently I have a lot of opinions. :/

[hells-half-acre.livejournal.com]

Haha, you just have three opinions that you explain well. ;)

[franztastisch]

Well, that's a first. :p

[hells-half-acre.livejournal.com]

Okay, now I have to argue with you too...

Dean's not a hypocrite. Firstly: There's a difference between coming back ALIVE and staying as a ghost. And yes, coming back alive messes up the natural order - but when did Dean learn that? S6 - Appointment in Samarra...YEARS after he brought Sam back. It's not hypocritical if you make a decision, learn that decision was wrong, and then advise people not to make that decision - that's called LEARNING. It's hypocritical if Dean told Bobby it was against the natural order for Bobby to be a ghost, and then something killed Dean and DEAN stayed behind as a ghost too.

Furthermore, the fact that Bobby's been killing ghosts his whole life means that BOBBY'S the hypocrite here and Dean's just pointing it out. Eventually, Bobby is going to turn evil and Dean is going to have to destroy that flask - and is this really how Bobby wanted his "soul-life" to end?

/rant.

But yeah, Annie totally slept with Dean while Sam was at Stanford. And it would be interesting to see what Annie thought of Sam, but we don't really get much Annie/Sam interaction here...or much Sam interaction at all really. I think though, that it depends on the circumstances of them meeting - Soulless!Sam knew how to act the part with Sam's old friends...and Annie probably didn't know Sam all that well. But yeah, would have been interesting. Sam didn't seem to concerned about her thinking of him poorly though, and he remembers everything soulless!Sam did now.

I think Bobby was just talking about what happens when ghosts are forcibly "killed", not death in general...that being said, I agree with you. I think the Colt takes things out of existence compleletely, but a salt'n'burn is like an exorcism - it just sends the ghost away from earth - either to heaven or hell. That being said, we've never seen someone in heaven who was salted'n'burned...of course, the only contender for that possibility is John, and there's casting reasons for why we can't see him. :P So who knows! Maybe Bobby is right, maybe we're right! It's a mystery!

[franztastisch]

coming back alive messes up the natural order - but when did Dean learn that? S6
OK I'm going to argue this right here. I think it's pretty damn obvious that coming back messes up the order of things. I don't think it takes a genius to work that out. Dean wouldn't have felt guilty about bringing Sam back if he didn't think it was wrong. Dean just didn't know how it messes it up.

I say hypocrite in relation to him doing something that he knows is wrong. As in, the first time they met all those people who'd sold their souls for something, he was pretty much "er guys this is a REALLY STUPID THING TO DO" and then he went and did it. And we know why, and I accept why, and I understand why, but it still happened.

But yes, I agree that Bobby is far more the hypocrite here than Dean. Bobby really should know better.

Also, I said "a bit of a hypocrite, but not really". I do actually agree with you on most points :P

ANYHOOO the Annie thing. I dunno, I just... if souless!Sam slept with her, he'd be... well how souless!Sam was with all people he slept with, and in general when he was working cases, he was noticably non-Sam like. Now, obviously Annie wouldn't realise that first time round, but I reckon she'd realise that there's be a bit of a disconnect between that Sam and the Sam she's seeing now. Not that it matters much anymore. :(

No there's Ellen and Jo! They were blown up sure, but they were blown up with a shit tonne of salt too and Ash said they were in heaven. So yeah, I think it's only the Colt that actually gives you oblivion. Also was Pamela given a hunters burial? I see no reason for them not to have done. It would be basic procedure really. And she was close enough to hunting for her to think it was a good idea. AND to be fair, people go to heaven/hell when they die, not when after the point they are buried/cremated. Dean would have gone to heaven with Tessa in 2x01 before John and Sam could have burned him I'm pretty sure. AND John was in hell after being salted and burned. Salt and burn only makes sure you can't comeback, it doesn't say anything about where you go. Am I now contradicting myself? I might be. I'm confused....

[hells-half-acre.livejournal.com]

Okay, yes, Dean was a hypocrit in SEASON 2. I mean, especially since he was all angsty about how John shouldn't have sold his soul for Dean, and then Dean turns around and does the same thing to Sam. :P But, I'll point out that we are not in S2, so therefore, Dean is no longer a hypocrite. He was a hypocrite once, and has since learned his lesson. So, my point stands.

I guess we'll never know what Annie's experiences with Sam before this was - I still think that if she didn't know him that well, she wouldn't have thought there was anything off with Soulless!Sam, and in this episode she is kind of distracted by being dead to pay much attention to how Sam is acting...not to mention that Bobby just died, so she might assume that Sam is more emo because he is a grieving or something...

About Ellen and Jo: Good point! While I'll point out that Ash actually didn't even know they were dead, let alone say that they were in Heaven - so technically that point of yours is wrong...you are still right! Because in the Mentalists, Ellen sends Dean a message through the medium-guy, which means that Ellen is still SOMEWHERE and that SOMEWHERE is a place where she can watch over Dean - which to me, would indicate Heaven rather than anywhere else. So, YAY! :)

[franztastisch]

Haha I'm still agreeing with you. Hence the "but not really". But anyway. Dean has learnt from his mistakes. Dean is not a hypocrite. Bobby is. I can't spell hypocrite most of the time.

Hahah oh yeah, it wasn't Ellen and Jo was it? He said he'd been looking for their parents... who he couldn't find. Hmm... maybe they don't go anywhere? Ash couldn't find John and Mary; John who's had a hunters burial, gone to hell and then escaped, and Mary who had been killed by a demon and then stayed behind and saved Sam from another spirit. Though to be fair, they're not a typical pair are they? :P But there's Ellen! Yey!

[hells-half-acre.livejournal.com]

And we don't know what happened to Pamela after she was killed - if they gave her a Hunter's funeral or not.

I can't spell hypocrite either. I keep wanting to say "hypocrit" because that's how it sounds. Hippo-krit...not Hippo-kright, which is how I read "hypocrite." Stupid English language, we have bastardized it to the point of it desperately needing spelling reform, but we've locked ourselves into this weird non-standard standard. :P

[franztastisch]

True true. Though part of me think that she'd've wanted a hunters funeral. Just because. But yeah, I have no proof.

Haha I love random English spelling! Even when it drives me up the wall. Through, though, plough, trough, thought. I mean, what the hell? :P

[hells-half-acre.livejournal.com]

I like that quote about English - how it's the language that mugs other languages in dark alleys and then searchers their pockets for spare vocabulary :P

cough, draught, drought...

I personally think they would have given Pamela a Hunter's funeral as well.

[franztastisch]

Wasn't that from Mock the Week or something? QI?

I also like that thing about how to spell fish in English. You know the one I mean?

[hells-half-acre.livejournal.com]

Oh yeah, the fish one...I forget how that is spelt. Something like ghiti or something?

I'm not sure where that joke is from. I originally saw it on an LJ icon. :P

[franztastisch]

I think it's MoW or QI. I'm fairly sure I saw it on TV once.

And yeah, thats the one. And I looked it up, just to be sure. Ghoti. You were close!

[hells-half-acre.livejournal.com]

It sounds like something from QI...I love that show.

Ghoti...I WAS close. I could remember that the "gh" came from cough and the "ti" came from the "-tion" words, but I can't remember where the o comes from. :P

[franztastisch]

Maybe I did hear it on QI, but it seems to be a quote from a guy called James D Nicoll:

"The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don’t just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary."

Also, I found this which is quite fun.

And the O comes from "women". Weirdly enough, that's the only one I remember! Look how compatible our information is. :P

[hells-half-acre.livejournal.com]

Haha, awesome. Between the two of us, we have all the knowledge we need (on this limited subject).

I love that poem! I've seen it before and was thinking of it, but I couldn't remember enough to go find it. I once read it out loud to myself - it was fun. I like reading out loud a lot, especially with things that are a bit tricky.

[franztastisch]

Haha I just came across it completely by accident. And then did indeed read it out to myself. And you're right, reading out tricky things is super useful. I read this book, Gould's Book of Fish, and it was amazing. But also really weird and trippy. But amazing. And it was written in the oddest way, that made it very difficult to read on the bus. So one day, I went to the park and hid behind some bushes (sort of) and read it out loud to myself. And then a guy would come past, or some woman with her dog, and I would go completely silent thinking nothing to see here, this is definately NOT someone sitting behind a bush reading out loud to themselves a book about crazy people floating in dead bodies. Nope. No way. Carry on as you were.

[hells-half-acre.livejournal.com]

Hahaha! Brilliant.

[percysowner.livejournal.com]

Bobby knows what happens after people die and get taken by a Reaper. What he doesn't know is what happens if someone sticks around as a ghost and then the ghost is killed. Are they considered a monster, so they go to Purgatory like all of Eve's children? Do they go where they would have gone if they had left immediately? Or do they just stop? I think the fact that Annie was a ghost, even though not be her own choosing is why Bobby thought there might be nothing after ghost Annie died.

[franztastisch]

Hmm... I get what you're saying. I think though, that Purgatory isn't an option because they died human. Purgatory seems to me to be somewhere you go if you die something else (vampire, werewolf etc) or were never human to start off with (dragon, seiren etc).

I think the fact that Annie was a ghost, even though not by her own choosing is why Bobby thought there might be nothing after ghost Annie died.
This I think might be it though. It wasn't her decision so maybe there was nothing for her afterwards. I'm not entirely sure but this is super plausable.