hells_half_acre: (Bobby says we're morons)
[personal profile] hells_half_acre
Oh man...so, I was going to watch this episode on the east coast feed, but then it was a a sunny day and my sister wanted to go to the bookstore, eat ice cream on Granville Island, and then drink sangria and play ukulele on the roof...and really, who was I to say no to all that?

But, I still saw the episode before it aired in the west, thanks to my friend's PVR (I am cat/house-sitting this week.)

Right now, I can tell you my quick reaction is to feel MUCH the same as Sam and Dean are feeling at the end of the episode, so obviously the writers did a fantastic job on having a story from Bobby's POV, but leaving me with Sam'n'Dean feels.

But, let's begin at the beginning...

FOOD on the COTW (that's Car Of The Week). I love scenes like this - "domestic scenes", because this is the equivalent of a Winchester family dinner. 

And a phonecall from Annie. I want to go through my old caps and look at Dean's cell contacts lists again - because he always has so many names in there that we never see, and I want to know if Annie was one of them and for how long...it's nice to see another hunter. It's why I liked Garth. I kind of always want them to explore Hunter society a bit more...I've always been curious about how Hunters react to Sam and Dean...obviously, according to Annie, they don't treat them any differently than other Hunters. Which, I guess is a good thing...

I liked how Dean took that phone call, and when Annie brought up Bobby, he gave this glance to Sam and then tried not to mention Bobby's name out loud...it was totally a "I don't want to talk about my feelings in front of my brother" moment. Oh Dean. :P

Let's see...then the stupid kids get killed...and Annie investigates...

And then we get another Winchester scene! Yay! They are being stood up. Haha. Oh I'm jumping ahead.

So, um...Annie slept with Bobby, Dean, AND Sam?! Awesome. I would like to be Annie please. How does Sam know that she slept with Bobby? Was that their pillow talk when her and Soulless!Sam got it on? I love how this whole conversation. I also love how Sam says, "she was stressed and I...had no soul." Hahaha, oh Sam, I love you so much.

(Also, is it just me, or do you picture Dean sleeping with Annie when he was a teenager? I totally see her as the older sexy woman seducing a teenage Dean. She'd be any 18 year-old's wet-dream.  It's either that, or it would have had to have been while Sam was at Stanford, since otherwise Dean and Sam know all of each other's conquests - except, obviously, Sam's soulless year.)

Oh yeah, the creepy house is totally the same one as Playthings in S2. I'm sure everyone caught that. :) 

Anyway...it's interesting to see how impotent Bobby is as a ghost...because remember that episode in S4 when Sam and Dean ghostified themselves and learned how to move things telekinetically in one afternoon?  Mind you, they had a teacher. Bobby can't be there all the time though - and I mainly say that because at the end he acts as though he doesn't know that the boys slept with Annie too (have I mentioned that it must have been nice to be Annie? Mind you, this means the curse of sleeping with Sam still holds true)....even though Dean had the flask at the restaurant when he and Sam discussed it. Also...I mean, he's got to be able to choose when he appears, because I'm sure there's things about the boys that he does not want to see...

So, where was I? Oh yeah...the boys go to the house to investimagate. And...Annie's dead. Aw shucks. I was kind of hoping she was alive somehow. But no...it seems rather unfair that such an obviously badass hunter could be taken out by a ghost, even a super-charged ghost...but I guess that's part of the hunting life, anything really can be your death.

I did fall for the misdirect with the convict vs. the dapper dude. Also, that ghost that ran at Bobby scared me. 

I wish we had seen Dean in the shower *is shallow* but at least we got to see wet Dean in a single layer afterwards...oh yeah....*pauses show* *appreciates* *contemplates general sense of sexual frustration* *unpauses show*

But YAY Bobby for writing on the mirror!

Oh, jumping back for a minute...it kind of annoys me that Annie said "do me a solid..." to a dude who died 80 years ago...um, maybe use phrases that were around 80 years ago? Thanks.

Anyway, YAY Bobby for writing on the mirror! I loved Dean and Sam's reactions...Jared and Jensen are so good with their reactions this episode, because they are so CONFLICTED! They are happy to see Bobby, but they are horrified that he's a ghost - it goes against everything that BOBBY raised them to believe is right. So, how can they justify not putting Bobby to rest, especially since they know what's tying him to the world...and there's the fact that they love him, and want him around, but at what eventual cost? I'm getting ahead of myself....

Actually, I'm jumping all over the place here - let me launch into some timeline stuff:
Fact #1: Bobby passes out when he manages to do something.
Fact #2: It took Bobby a month to realize he was dead and still around...does this mean that he missed the month that Dean and Sam spent SOLELY grieving? Did he realize he was dead and then immediately disappear Dean's beer?
Fact #3: Bobby passed out for 2 weeks after he knocked a book off the table. That means that he didn't see what happened once Dean found Cas. Also, how did Bobby know about Cas? DID he know about Cas? Did he know about the Hunter who was healed by "Emmanuel" and just not know it was Cas? If so, that means that 7x10 and 7x17 happened within 3 months of each other and possibly an even shorter time period. 
Possibilities: If Bobby passed out for an indeterminate time whenever he successfully did something that means that he may have not been around after 1)The beer, 2)The helpful page, 3)Sam went crazy, 4)the sword. 
Fact #4: If Bobby passed out for 2 weeks after knocking that book off the table, that means that 7x18 occurred 2 weeks after 7x17 because Bobby moved the sword in 7x18. 

Cool....time-lining! Isn't it fun?!?! Seriously, I love this crap. It's like logical puzzles, only less annoying.

So, back to the house! Annie and Victoria chat it up...and um...if Victoria sent Annie a message? How did that work? Was Annie at the house and Victoria saw her and left a message on her phone? Was Annie someplace else and Victoria sent a message to her and she somehow tracked it down to that area even though there was no possible way to do that? 

Anywho...we simultaneously find out what this week's misdirect was - two more teenagers get offed - and we learn that ghosts can off other ghosts...which means sense, I mean, Mary did it back in 1x09...only it destroyed her rather than make her stronger. I know they've been doing it on another show that I won't mention for fear of spoiling it for someone who hasn't seen it (I don't watch the show, but my friend does, and she tells me things). Anyway...interesting clarification/addition to the mythology. Also, it was freaky and cool to see the deterioration of ghosts.

So, yeah...Bobby and Dean come and are able to speak with Victoria...and that was neat. And then it's off to burn the bad guy! Yay! Only the bad guy puts a key or something in Sam's pocket and oh noes....meanwhile Bobby has secreted his flask to a drawer so that he can stay in the house with Annie. And yeah, there's a whole bunch of ghostly pickpocketing going on.

I did like how smoothly they had to do it though - I always forget when they do the ghost-Bobby scenes that Jared and Jensen have to act like Jim Beaver isn't two feet beside them yelling at them. And I have to say - it's really hard to do that. I've tried to ignore people while doing extra work, and it's really hard not to glance at people when they're standing RIGHT THERE. I mean, as an extra, I think I'm allowed to glance at people, so it's not a huge deal if I do give them a glance - obviously, ordinarily people passing on the street DO glance at each other, but seriously - try it next time you are walking around or hanging out with your friends - just decide that you're going to not even look at someone. It's difficult.

So, Sam and Dean run off to salt and burn the bad guy....and Sam is doing internet research in the car. Which to me, means that he's got one of those USB internet sticks...because you cannot leach off other people's wireless networks when you are speeding down the highway at 60 miles/hour. 

I liked the fact that the ghost actually sped up the car rather than make the engine die or something else stupid.

And then they empty their pocket shoot the ghost back to the house and then carry on...

And how can the ghost kill Bobby when he doesn't have access to his bones? They made it seem as though the ghost moved the bones into the fire telekinetically while he fisted the victim-ghost...but he didn't have access to the Bobby's bones, so how would that have worked?

I guess we don't have to really worry about it though, because Dean and Sam are speedy burners. 

Then they can see Bobby! WOOt! Only...it is AWKWARD.

And I like that about this show - the fact that it's not WONDERFUL AND AMAZING that Bobby is still around. They aren't overjoyed - they don't burst into tears and tell him how much they miss him...instead they shift on their feet and are HORRIBLY CONFLICTED. Because 1)Ghosts are bad, and 2)They love Bobby...

What memory do they want of Bobby? The hunter who died in battle? The one they gave a Hunter's funeral to, believing that his soul was already in heaven drinking a beer with Ash at Harvelles? (And how much do I love Dean for calling it 'Harvelles'? Answer: A lot.)...or do they want the Bobby who they can't touch, who is against nature, who is slowly going to go crazy and whatever happens will cause things to "not end well."? 

I feel for Bobby too of course, because he's Dean in 2x01. He wants to stay and protect his family, he wants to HELP, and he wants his family to be HAPPY that he stayed to help. He wants, fundamentally, to still be alive - and if he can't be alive, he wants to act just like he is.

But he's not - and I think that's what Annie understood better than him. Annie chalked it up to the fact that she didn't have 'the boys', she only had the work and she couldn't do that anymore - and now she wanted to rest, to be nothing. But, I think, fundamentally, Annie understood that death meant an END to things, not the beginning of different things. She understood that to be dead meant that her time should be over. 

I do think that the boys need Bobby though - I think they are floundering. They can't tell what Dick is up to. We can't even be sure that they have the right numbers - they don't know what Dick is doing and Bobby does! (And FYI: That would have been my first question to Bobby - not the awkward "why didn't you go to heaven?" question, but the "tell me everything you know about Dick Roman...awesome...oops, flask in the fire. Sorry Bobby, I LOVE YOU!"...but yeah, none of my loved ones are ghosts (at least I hope not), so perhaps I shouldn't judge.

Interesting times, to say the least....

Oh, also minor nitpick: Dean did something at the end that I CAN'T STAND, which is to repeat the last sentence of a speech twice. "What are the odds...what. are. the. odds." I hate that. They usually do it all the time in dramatic angsty heartfelt speeches on TV.

And yeah...awkward ending is awkward...but it's way more true to character and therefore realistic that way. 

It's nice to have Jim Beaver back on my screen.

So, thoughts? Feelings?

Next week looks cool too, but I won't spoil the preview for any of you strict spoiler-phobes out there.

Date: 2012-04-21 05:42 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] missyjack.livejournal.com
You are so right about how well the handled the grief with how conflicted the boys were. And Bobby trying to deal with them not being overjoyed.

And all the little domestic touches were just a treat.

Can't wait til next week!

Date: 2012-04-21 06:23 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hells-half-acre.livejournal.com
Next week is what I like to refer to as an Edlund-Edlund episode! Those are always great!

I'm glad you agree about the grief/conflict. I thought they did a superb job of it - emotionally unsatisfying in a good way. ;)

Date: 2012-04-21 06:26 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] quickreaver.livejournal.com
I love your reviews but I'm too tired to say something more eloquent so...WELL DONE! And now...zzzzzzz.........

Date: 2012-04-21 06:28 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hells-half-acre.livejournal.com
Thank you and sweet dreams! :)

Date: 2012-04-21 08:21 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] raloria.livejournal.com
Enjoyed reading your thoughts, as always. :)
As I said in my review...I think Dean will come around and realize they need Bobby in this fight. I guess I can understand the awkwardness (ghosts are bad), but this is still Bobby, surrogate father and all that. Why not use him if he's willing and able? You're right...they should've asked him about Dick Roman and his plans.

Date: 2012-04-21 12:52 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mekina.livejournal.com
I enjoyed it, but I'm tired of woobie!Dean, and there wasn't enough focus on Sam and Dean. I want the brothers to be focused on more, and I want our badass hunters of old. ;P I love Bobby, but I don't like him as a ghost. It won't end well. *sigh* Also, Dean is a hypocrite, look how many times he's been back to life, in heaven, hell, and everywhere else, yet he accuses Bobby of messing up the natural order or whatever.
Edited Date: 2012-04-21 12:54 pm (UTC)

Date: 2012-04-21 05:05 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hells-half-acre.livejournal.com
I think you had the reaction that you were supposed to have re: Bobby as a ghost. As for Dean being a hypocrit - I'll point out that Dean never CHOSE to do any of those things (besides going to hell and therefore bringing Sam back to life), but I'll point out that the reason he gets mad at Bobby is because Dean has since LEARNED HIS LESSON. Remember Appointment in Samarra? Dean KNOWS now what messing with the natural order does. Furthermore, Bobby hasn't even come back to life, he's a GHOST, which means that Bobby will eventually become an angry ghost...and possibly kill innocent people, unless Dean and Sam put him to rest forcibly...and then the odds are that he won't even go to heaven, where Dean at least liked to picturing him having a beer with Ellen and Jo. So, yeah, basically I'm saying that Dean isn't a hypocrite and that there's good cause to be woobie.

Also, give the guys one break. We get so much Sam and Dean in this show, I think you can survive one episode with a focus on another character - and if you don't like woobie!Dean, you don't actually want the focus to be on Sam and Dean, since you know, if you call THAT woobie, then Dean's basically just not allowed to have emotions anymore.

And that is my overly harsh response to your opinion. Sorry. I haven't had breakfast yet. :P What I mean to say is...

*shrug* to each their own. I hope the next episode is more to your liking! :)

Date: 2012-04-21 12:52 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] khek.livejournal.com
The interactions between Sam and Dean, Dean and Bobby and Sam and Bobby were great. But I didn't care about imitation Ellen at all, and the ghosts kind of didn't make sense.

I thought it was kind of boring, to be honest. I'm hoping it will be an episode I'll like more with a second viewing.

Date: 2012-04-21 12:54 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mekina.livejournal.com
She kept reminding me of Ellen! I guess I'm not the only one? :D

Date: 2012-04-21 05:07 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hells-half-acre.livejournal.com
Yeah, they kind of have to mix up the female Hunter archetype. Also, um, as much as I love how they light the show and the filters they used, when Dean described her as having "red hair" I was confused. :P

Date: 2012-04-22 12:54 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] khek.livejournal.com
I guess it didn't help that she was always in the dark, and her makeup was making her look kind of grey...

I think the actress does have red hair, but you're right...it certainly didn't show!

I think another part of what threw me was that her voice, speech patterns and word choice were very much like Ellen. Hmm. Maybe she was supposed to be Ellen's sister or something, and that part got cut?

Date: 2012-04-22 05:03 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hells-half-acre.livejournal.com
Haha, I just figured there was a stereotypical "generic white non-urban female" american accent. But yeah, they could have mixed up the speech patterns a little.

Ah well.

Date: 2012-04-21 01:10 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] vail-kagami.livejournal.com
I think Van Ness absorbing the other ghosts and him killing Victoria were two different things. One was, well, absorbtion, for which he needed to come in close contect with the ghosts, the other was a simple salt and burn (or just burn, in this case) so he could kill her from the distance. She didn't know it was coming, so he wasn't anywhere near her when it happened.

I loved your observations on how conflicted they are. Because they are conflicted. And they had just begun to find closure, only to find there is none yet. Sucks to be Bobby as well. Poor guy.

Date: 2012-04-21 05:12 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hells-half-acre.livejournal.com
And they had just begun to find closure, only to find there is none yet. Sucks to be Bobby as well. Poor guy.

Yeah...remember in Death Takes a Holiday? When Sam and Dean met the ghost kid who was still living with his mother - and they told him that his mother couldn't move on and be happy again as long as she could sense his presence as a ghost? I think that's coming into play here too. Which sucks for the boys and for Bobby.

Good point about the ghost-absorption vs. salt-n-burn!

Date: 2012-04-25 03:51 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
I know Bobby said he's avoiding his reaper, but with Bobby I think it may be a case of regular ghost "unfinished business", that wont let him move on, he just sees it differently.
But, the guy's a hunter! He knows the downside of having angry/fustrated spirits around. Bobby's always been strong enough to do the right thing, and once he's satisfied the leviathans are taken care of or w/e, I think he may be able to rest.

Also on a side note, I think the writers, realized they needed a different or roundabout approach to bringing down the superpowerful leviathans so why not bring Bobby back? as a GHOST? :P

Date: 2012-04-25 04:05 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hells-half-acre.livejournal.com
Very good point! I think there must be some reason why they have Bobby as a ghost still, besides the angst. And you're right...Bobby DOES have unfinished business, because we still don't know what the heck the Leviathans are planning and Bobby does.

Date: 2012-04-21 02:27 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dairygirl.livejournal.com
I was surprised when Dean brought up the unnatural thing because hello! How many times has he died and been brought back? Granted not as a ghost but still against the natural order of things. Hypocrite

Date: 2012-04-21 05:18 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hells-half-acre.livejournal.com
Oh, I'm going to have to be unnecessarily harsh on you for a minute: Dean's not a hypocrit, and I'll tell you why: Dean was always brought back ALIVE and against his will (save for when Cas rescued him, which I'm pretty sure is something he wanted to happy.) Staying around as a ghost is a MUCH different thing than being brought back from the dead without any say in the matter.

Furthermore, Dean hasn't died since Appointment in Samarra - and that's when he learned what happens when you mess with the natural order...and that's SOLELY for people who avoid death. He's known since he was a boy what happens to souls that don't go with their reaper - they end up angry, confused, and killing people.

So yeah, NOT a hypocrite.

Date: 2012-04-21 09:58 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dairygirl.livejournal.com
Point to you about the Dean is brought back against his will. Bobby is a ghost not a person brought back from the dead. Just the similar phrasing about the "natural order of things" referencing earlier episodes made me cranky.

Date: 2012-04-21 04:11 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] franztastisch.livejournal.com
Haha oh man, I lvoed tht all three of them had slept with Annie. And I totally see Dean sleepig with her while Sam was at Stanford. And anyway, that makes the most sense as that's basically the only significant period of time where neither John and Sam were hunting with him, I think? ANYWAY. I like that. I think it's funny. And Annie totally would be the sexy older woman. THOUGH I wonder what she thought of Sam, cos she wouldn't have known that he had no soul the first time she met him - it's not like Sam would tell her; "Hi, yeah I'll totally help. Oh and fyi I'm currently without a soul" - so her view of seeing him again would be pretty interesting.

As to Dean saying it's unnatural for Bobby to be there. Well he's right. And he's also a bit of a hypocrite, but not really. Cos bascially, Dean has only made ONE decision to come back/bring someone else back/mess up the order of stuff, and that was his deal to get Sam back. He actively chose that knowing, as Bobby does, the consequences. Every other time, it has been someone elses decision; John, Heaven, Cas, Gabe, Michael, whoever. Sam has never, as far as I can remember, actively succeeded in "messing up the order" himself - again, other people made the decisions (Dean, Cas, Lucifer, Michael, God/Joshua etc) or he didn't succeed (deal attempts).

So yeah. Also, I thought it was weird that Bobby said that he thought that the was "nothing" after death despite the fact that he knows two of the only people in the world who can attest to the existance of both heaven and hell. And I'd find it really weird if heaven and hell were exclusively for those who passed on willingly. Cos seriously, who's pass on willingly to hell? Even if you didn't know how bad it could be, it's still hell.

But overall, I didn't think this was the worlds most interesting episode. Dean just out of the show was lovely though. :P

Date: 2012-04-21 04:12 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] franztastisch.livejournal.com
Oh wow. And aparently I have a lot of opinions. :/

Date: 2012-04-21 05:30 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hells-half-acre.livejournal.com
Haha, you just have three opinions that you explain well. ;)

Date: 2012-04-21 05:43 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] franztastisch.livejournal.com
Well, that's a first. :p

Date: 2012-04-21 05:29 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hells-half-acre.livejournal.com
Okay, now I have to argue with you too...

Dean's not a hypocrite. Firstly: There's a difference between coming back ALIVE and staying as a ghost. And yes, coming back alive messes up the natural order - but when did Dean learn that? S6 - Appointment in Samarra...YEARS after he brought Sam back. It's not hypocritical if you make a decision, learn that decision was wrong, and then advise people not to make that decision - that's called LEARNING. It's hypocritical if Dean told Bobby it was against the natural order for Bobby to be a ghost, and then something killed Dean and DEAN stayed behind as a ghost too.

Furthermore, the fact that Bobby's been killing ghosts his whole life means that BOBBY'S the hypocrite here and Dean's just pointing it out. Eventually, Bobby is going to turn evil and Dean is going to have to destroy that flask - and is this really how Bobby wanted his "soul-life" to end?


But yeah, Annie totally slept with Dean while Sam was at Stanford. And it would be interesting to see what Annie thought of Sam, but we don't really get much Annie/Sam interaction here...or much Sam interaction at all really. I think though, that it depends on the circumstances of them meeting - Soulless!Sam knew how to act the part with Sam's old friends...and Annie probably didn't know Sam all that well. But yeah, would have been interesting. Sam didn't seem to concerned about her thinking of him poorly though, and he remembers everything soulless!Sam did now.

I think Bobby was just talking about what happens when ghosts are forcibly "killed", not death in general...that being said, I agree with you. I think the Colt takes things out of existence compleletely, but a salt'n'burn is like an exorcism - it just sends the ghost away from earth - either to heaven or hell. That being said, we've never seen someone in heaven who was salted'n'burned...of course, the only contender for that possibility is John, and there's casting reasons for why we can't see him. :P So who knows! Maybe Bobby is right, maybe we're right! It's a mystery!

Date: 2012-04-21 06:01 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] franztastisch.livejournal.com
coming back alive messes up the natural order - but when did Dean learn that? S6
OK I'm going to argue this right here. I think it's pretty damn obvious that coming back messes up the order of things. I don't think it takes a genius to work that out. Dean wouldn't have felt guilty about bringing Sam back if he didn't think it was wrong. Dean just didn't know how it messes it up.

I say hypocrite in relation to him doing something that he knows is wrong. As in, the first time they met all those people who'd sold their souls for something, he was pretty much "er guys this is a REALLY STUPID THING TO DO" and then he went and did it. And we know why, and I accept why, and I understand why, but it still happened.

But yes, I agree that Bobby is far more the hypocrite here than Dean. Bobby really should know better.

Also, I said "a bit of a hypocrite, but not really". I do actually agree with you on most points :P

ANYHOOO the Annie thing. I dunno, I just... if souless!Sam slept with her, he'd be... well how souless!Sam was with all people he slept with, and in general when he was working cases, he was noticably non-Sam like. Now, obviously Annie wouldn't realise that first time round, but I reckon she'd realise that there's be a bit of a disconnect between that Sam and the Sam she's seeing now. Not that it matters much anymore. :(

No there's Ellen and Jo! They were blown up sure, but they were blown up with a shit tonne of salt too and Ash said they were in heaven. So yeah, I think it's only the Colt that actually gives you oblivion. Also was Pamela given a hunters burial? I see no reason for them not to have done. It would be basic procedure really. And she was close enough to hunting for her to think it was a good idea. AND to be fair, people go to heaven/hell when they die, not when after the point they are buried/cremated. Dean would have gone to heaven with Tessa in 2x01 before John and Sam could have burned him I'm pretty sure. AND John was in hell after being salted and burned. Salt and burn only makes sure you can't comeback, it doesn't say anything about where you go. Am I now contradicting myself? I might be. I'm confused....

Date: 2012-04-21 06:08 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hells-half-acre.livejournal.com
Okay, yes, Dean was a hypocrit in SEASON 2. I mean, especially since he was all angsty about how John shouldn't have sold his soul for Dean, and then Dean turns around and does the same thing to Sam. :P But, I'll point out that we are not in S2, so therefore, Dean is no longer a hypocrite. He was a hypocrite once, and has since learned his lesson. So, my point stands.

I guess we'll never know what Annie's experiences with Sam before this was - I still think that if she didn't know him that well, she wouldn't have thought there was anything off with Soulless!Sam, and in this episode she is kind of distracted by being dead to pay much attention to how Sam is acting...not to mention that Bobby just died, so she might assume that Sam is more emo because he is a grieving or something...

About Ellen and Jo: Good point! While I'll point out that Ash actually didn't even know they were dead, let alone say that they were in Heaven - so technically that point of yours is wrong...you are still right! Because in the Mentalists, Ellen sends Dean a message through the medium-guy, which means that Ellen is still SOMEWHERE and that SOMEWHERE is a place where she can watch over Dean - which to me, would indicate Heaven rather than anywhere else. So, YAY! :)

Date: 2012-04-21 06:23 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] franztastisch.livejournal.com
Haha I'm still agreeing with you. Hence the "but not really". But anyway. Dean has learnt from his mistakes. Dean is not a hypocrite. Bobby is. I can't spell hypocrite most of the time.

Hahah oh yeah, it wasn't Ellen and Jo was it? He said he'd been looking for their parents... who he couldn't find. Hmm... maybe they don't go anywhere? Ash couldn't find John and Mary; John who's had a hunters burial, gone to hell and then escaped, and Mary who had been killed by a demon and then stayed behind and saved Sam from another spirit. Though to be fair, they're not a typical pair are they? :P But there's Ellen! Yey!

Date: 2012-04-21 06:28 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hells-half-acre.livejournal.com
And we don't know what happened to Pamela after she was killed - if they gave her a Hunter's funeral or not.

I can't spell hypocrite either. I keep wanting to say "hypocrit" because that's how it sounds. Hippo-krit...not Hippo-kright, which is how I read "hypocrite." Stupid English language, we have bastardized it to the point of it desperately needing spelling reform, but we've locked ourselves into this weird non-standard standard. :P

Date: 2012-04-21 06:40 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] franztastisch.livejournal.com
True true. Though part of me think that she'd've wanted a hunters funeral. Just because. But yeah, I have no proof.

Haha I love random English spelling! Even when it drives me up the wall. Through, though, plough, trough, thought. I mean, what the hell? :P

Date: 2012-04-21 06:49 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hells-half-acre.livejournal.com
I like that quote about English - how it's the language that mugs other languages in dark alleys and then searchers their pockets for spare vocabulary :P

cough, draught, drought...

I personally think they would have given Pamela a Hunter's funeral as well.

Date: 2012-04-21 07:22 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] franztastisch.livejournal.com
Wasn't that from Mock the Week or something? QI?

I also like that thing about how to spell fish in English. You know the one I mean?

Date: 2012-04-21 07:25 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hells-half-acre.livejournal.com
Oh yeah, the fish one...I forget how that is spelt. Something like ghiti or something?

I'm not sure where that joke is from. I originally saw it on an LJ icon. :P

Date: 2012-04-21 07:56 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] franztastisch.livejournal.com
I think it's MoW or QI. I'm fairly sure I saw it on TV once.

And yeah, thats the one. And I looked it up, just to be sure. Ghoti. You were close!

Date: 2012-04-21 08:03 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hells-half-acre.livejournal.com
It sounds like something from QI...I love that show.

Ghoti...I WAS close. I could remember that the "gh" came from cough and the "ti" came from the "-tion" words, but I can't remember where the o comes from. :P

Date: 2012-04-21 08:08 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] franztastisch.livejournal.com
Maybe I did hear it on QI, but it seems to be a quote from a guy called James D Nicoll:

"The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don’t just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary."

Also, I found this which is quite fun.

And the O comes from "women". Weirdly enough, that's the only one I remember! Look how compatible our information is. :P

Date: 2012-04-21 08:13 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hells-half-acre.livejournal.com
Haha, awesome. Between the two of us, we have all the knowledge we need (on this limited subject).

I love that poem! I've seen it before and was thinking of it, but I couldn't remember enough to go find it. I once read it out loud to myself - it was fun. I like reading out loud a lot, especially with things that are a bit tricky.

Date: 2012-04-21 08:20 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] franztastisch.livejournal.com
Haha I just came across it completely by accident. And then did indeed read it out to myself. And you're right, reading out tricky things is super useful. I read this book, Gould's Book of Fish, and it was amazing. But also really weird and trippy. But amazing. And it was written in the oddest way, that made it very difficult to read on the bus. So one day, I went to the park and hid behind some bushes (sort of) and read it out loud to myself. And then a guy would come past, or some woman with her dog, and I would go completely silent thinking nothing to see here, this is definately NOT someone sitting behind a bush reading out loud to themselves a book about crazy people floating in dead bodies. Nope. No way. Carry on as you were.

Date: 2012-04-21 08:23 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hells-half-acre.livejournal.com
Hahaha! Brilliant.

Date: 2012-04-21 05:37 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] percysowner.livejournal.com
Bobby knows what happens after people die and get taken by a Reaper. What he doesn't know is what happens if someone sticks around as a ghost and then the ghost is killed. Are they considered a monster, so they go to Purgatory like all of Eve's children? Do they go where they would have gone if they had left immediately? Or do they just stop? I think the fact that Annie was a ghost, even though not be her own choosing is why Bobby thought there might be nothing after ghost Annie died.

Date: 2012-04-21 06:06 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] franztastisch.livejournal.com
Hmm... I get what you're saying. I think though, that Purgatory isn't an option because they died human. Purgatory seems to me to be somewhere you go if you die something else (vampire, werewolf etc) or were never human to start off with (dragon, seiren etc).

I think the fact that Annie was a ghost, even though not by her own choosing is why Bobby thought there might be nothing after ghost Annie died.
This I think might be it though. It wasn't her decision so maybe there was nothing for her afterwards. I'm not entirely sure but this is super plausable.

Date: 2012-04-21 05:35 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] marlowe78.livejournal.com
Hey there. Really enjoyed this ep as well!

Also, is it just me, or do you picture Dean sleeping with Annie when he was a teenager? I totally see her as the older sexy woman seducing a teenage Dean. She'd be any 18 year-old's wet-dream. It's either that, or it would have had to have been while Sam was at Stanford, since otherwise Dean and Sam know all of each other's conquests - except, obviously, Sam's soulless year.

Hee, totally! Though the show said she was "mid-thirties", I truly believe she was at least in her forties ;-) Still, I like the idea of the boys sharing an experience - though not at the same time. hee. Makes it a bit... more realistic? If that's possible...

Cool....time-lining! Isn't it fun?!?! Seriously, I love this crap. It's like logical puzzles, only less annoying.
Hee, it reminds me of sudoku ;-)
But yeah, good reasoning. To spoil your fun: it might be that he's exaggerating the "2 weeks" and really means "long time" ;-)

I mean, as an extra, I think I'm allowed to glance at people, so it's not a huge deal if I do give them a glance - obviously, ordinarily people passing on the street DO glance at each other, but seriously

Ordinary people SURE WOULD glance at Sam and Dean in the streets. Just saying.... Ignoring them makes it unrealistic ;-)

And how can the ghost kill Bobby when he doesn't have access to his bones? They made it seem as though the ghost moved the bones into the fire telekinetically while he fisted the victim-ghost...but he didn't have access to the Bobby's bones, so how would that have worked?

Oh, good question! Maybe he drains the ghosts first, and they CAN re-appear later (until they are dried out) and he only burns their bones after that? Or he only burned Victoria's bones and not the others? I mean, he wouldn't have had Dexter's bones, would he?

So my guess is that he can drain them and use their power for his own good (more or less completely, as I think it was implied that he drains the ghosts piece by piece) AND he can burn the bones. And he keeps the bones a) so he can keep the ghosts and b) so he has a safety-net for getting rid of them without having to come close.

I feel for Bobby too of course, because he's Dean in 2x01. He wants to stay and protect his family, he wants to HELP, and he wants his family to be HAPPY that he stayed to help. He wants, fundamentally, to still be alive - and if he can't be alive, he wants to act just like he is.

Yes, yes yes. And he's sad that the boys don't seem too happy to have him. I would be, even though I'd never admit it. I think that's why he was so sad in the last scene: he wanted to help them, but he just then realized that maybe he didn't do them a favor by staying, because now they have to get him "buried" a second time, have to say goodbye once more. Poor Bobby. :-( Poor Boys :-(

I really, really really loved this episode, and having Bobby on screen is always amazing. .

Date: 2012-04-21 05:45 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hells-half-acre.livejournal.com
Hee, totally! Though the show said she was "mid-thirties", I truly believe she was at least in her forties ;-) Still, I like the idea of the boys sharing an experience - though not at the same time. hee. Makes it a bit... more realistic? If that's possible...

Yeah, I agree that she looked like she was in her forties. In anycase, I see her as being AT LEAST 4-5 years older than Dean. Which, if they were something like 18 and 22, would still make her an awesome "older" woman. But, maybe they were 24 and 30 or something like that.

Haha, yeah, sudoku is a form of logic puzzle...and yeah, I realize that Bobby might have been hyperbolic or estimating in his "two weeks" statement - but I have so little to go on with timelining that I will take what I can get! :P

Good idea re: ghost draining vs. burning! I bet that's the case.

And poor Bobby and poor boys...very true that this means they're just going to have to grieve him all over again.

Date: 2012-04-21 06:57 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] katsheswims.livejournal.com
I also loved the shower scene! Dean's wet hair made him look so cute!

I was thinking that evil guy ghost knew some kind of magic (necromancy or something) to make him able to absorb other ghost's essences(?). Though they never stated that. Maybe he was just more knowledgeable than other ghosts and before they figured out the absorbing trick he was too powerful for them to take on? I don't think he needed their bodies/bones to drain them-he just had them in the house to keep the ghosts trapped there. (He MUST have had some magical training to do all this!) He did burn Victoria's bones because I guess he didn't want to risk showing himself to 2 hunters yet and he wanted to shut her up.
Edited Date: 2012-04-21 06:57 pm (UTC)

Date: 2012-04-21 06:58 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hells-half-acre.livejournal.com
Makes sense to me! :)

Date: 2012-04-21 07:13 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cordelia-gray.livejournal.com
Agree so much about all the ambivalence about Bobby! He stayed for them, and yet - it just muddies things. They need him, but he should have moved on - how can it end well?

Though maybe, if he can help them take down the Leviathans, that will take care of his unfinished business, and he'll be able to move on. *hopes*

Date: 2012-04-21 07:15 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hells-half-acre.livejournal.com
That's what I'm hoping too! :)

Date: 2012-04-22 06:48 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] norahy.livejournal.com
And how can the ghost kill Bobby when he doesn't have access to his bones?

I think it's because Bobby kept the flask at the house. The master ghost guy, supposedly a very powerful ghost, knew about it, somehow

Date: 2012-04-22 06:55 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hells-half-acre.livejournal.com
Hmm...perhaps perhaps. :)


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