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Shoulder Shots
-Dean gets shot in the left shoulder (by Meg!Sam) around the beginning of February, 2007. (entry wound only)
-Around five or six months later, Sam gets shot in the left shoulder by Bella.
-Almost exactly one year later, Dean gets shot in the left shoulder again by demon!FBI around the beginning of February, 2008. (entry and exit wound)

So, Dean's left shoulder would have been pretty damn messed up until Castiel gets rid of all his scars in S4.

Season 4 rewatch
Ok, I've only watched three episodes, and one of those doesn't even have Sam in it....but MAN, I am suddenly REALLY noticing how controlling Dean is. I think I'd want to get away from him too. I think the first time I saw the episodes, I was too focused on the plot, and the second time I was too focused on Sam's behaviour...but, yeah, now that I'm watching again, I'm really starting to see what Sam was talking about. It makes me really interested to see what their relationship is going to be like in S6.

It also points out that Dean actually DID have a long way to go in treating Sam like an equal, not a kid. 

Date: 2010-06-27 08:05 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] claudiapriscus.livejournal.com
The problem I have with that whole theme is that they made the stakes too high.

From a relationship level, it was bad. From the "crap, apocalypse" (or "crap, angels!") point of view, it didn't seem unreasonable.

But they were both just so....nuts at that point.

Date: 2010-06-27 08:10 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hells-half-acre.livejournal.com
As in the relationship shouldn't have been a problem because they had greater things to deal with?

And yeah, they were definitely BOTH nuts. I'm just saying that Dean's version of nuts wasn't as apparent to me as Sam's in previous watchings. But then, I'm also a crazy control freak.

Date: 2010-06-27 08:38 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] claudiapriscus.livejournal.com
Not that it wasn't a problem, just that it was eclipsed, from a story point of view, by the apocalypse.

I had the same problem with the season 5 ending. "you're a grown man, I'm going to respect that" is a fine plot development when the stakes are less than "and if this ridiculously risky plan fails, we're all screwed"

So in regards to season 4, even if Dean wasn't right, his reaction wasn't baseless, either. If that makes sense.

Date: 2010-06-27 08:48 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hells-half-acre.livejournal.com
Oh ok, I think I understand what you mean now.

I didn't mean to imply that Dean's reactions were baseless. I totally understand where he's coming from - I just meant that I can see why it would drive Sam crazy.

Personally, I don't think really think the apocalypse-plot eclipsed the emotional-plot that much - I think the emotional-plot was a fine subplot for the season (if not a little inconsistently developed).

Date: 2010-06-27 08:53 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] claudiapriscus.livejournal.com
I guess I'm not even really thinking about it from the actual character development side of things- I just think that they were two storylines that the writers wanted to tell (especially in season 5), but that they were a bit...at odds.

If it had been a straight up drug-addiction story, it would have worked. But you add in, oh, the fate of the world, and it changes the meaning, you know?

And all of these thoughts are really related to how season 4 set up Season 5, not season 4 on its own merits, I suppose.
Edited Date: 2010-06-27 08:53 pm (UTC)

Date: 2010-06-27 09:48 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hells-half-acre.livejournal.com
For me, I don't think they were at odds. I also don't think that it could have worked as a straight-up drug-addiction story, but then, maybe there's a reason I'm not a fan of television dramas. I need my emotional-plots with a good does of apocalypse on the side.

Date: 2010-06-28 03:33 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] claudiapriscus.livejournal.com
Just from a technical standpoint. I'm not a big fan of dramas either, at least not the kind that might tell that sort of story. I just mean that.... it's like, oh, imagine a story where the guy is running up against a deadline (a matter of hours) trying to save someone. If in addition to that storyline, there was something about him not...oh, not spending enough time on his girl friend, it could be problematic, if they use those standard drama tropes (i.e. the moral of the story being that he should put his girlfriend above his job) You'd be like, "Okay, so maybe he should spend more time with his girlfriend. But he's only got a few hours to save X from a fate worse than death! So maybe spending time with his girlfriend isn't the right move at this exact point in time."

They don't HAVE to be in conflict- it could be used to heighten the tension- but depending on how they do it, it could leave you scratching your head at the message. ("So the guy's relationship with his girlfriend is more important than the People In Peril dying in the next few hours?")

Date: 2010-06-28 04:19 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hells-half-acre.livejournal.com
I just don't see it as applying in this case.

Mainly, I think, because even though the stakes ARE really high in Supernatural - The apocalypse ends when Sam and Dean decide for it to end...when they figure out a suitable plan for it ending. Sam's plan is...albeit ridiculously risky...the only plan they have...and they don't even have the beginnings of it until 5x19 and then Sam doesn't voice his idea for HIS role in the plan until 5x20, and doesn't voice it to Dean until 5x21, but after the fiasco of 4x22, he's not about to go ahead without Dean's blessing...so, for me, it all ties in together.

So, if I were to use your analogy, the guy can only meet the deadline IF he is on good terms with his girlfriend. At least, that's the way I see it. So, it's not that the guy's relationship is more important than people's lives - it's that people's lives are depending on the guy's relationship.


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