Thinky Thoughts and Speculation
Mar. 30th, 2010 04:35 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
hells_half_acreOk, I'm going to do something I rarely do, and speculate...though it's not really speculation, it's more like HOPING. I talk about some spoilers from the recent Con, but please keep in mind that I don't read a lot of spoilers - so if you know things I don't, don't tell me! I don't want to have the plots/guest-stars of upcoming episodes spoiled for me.
So, although I refuse to go to Cons myself (for multitudinous reasons), I do devour all information that comes out of them...even if that means destroying my "no spoilers except preview clips!" rule.
Because of that, I've got some thinky thoughts about the rest of the season. Now, because I'm only speculating based on what was said at the Cons - PLEASE DO NOT COMMENT WITH SPOILERS!! I do not know what Episode 100 is about, I do not know what Special Guest Stars are appearing before this season closes out...so please don't spoil those surprises for me. I ONLY know what was said at the LA Con this past weekend. (Oh, I also follow one of the production staff on Twitter, but they never spoil anything...except today they said the finale was "worse than Dean going to hell")
Ok, onwards...
It looks like it's going to be a cliffhanger. I could have guess this, I suppose, because I've read the companion books, and interviews with Kripke, and he's said that he thought the S2 finale was the weakest one because there was no immediate unresolved danger at the end of it. It's interesting to think of the Supernatural cliffhangers, because they COULD just be the finale of the show (except arguably S3).
In S1, they actually didn't know if they were coming back or not when they filmed the end. So, the series could have very well ran one season and ended with the Winchesters failing to kill YED, but learning that family was more important than revenge, and then getting killed in a car accident. S2 had a PARTIAL cliffhanger with Dean only having a year to live - but if the show hadn't come back for S3, you could assume that he got out of it somehow. S3 had Dean going to hell - which, I admit, could also be the end of the series...but they knew they were coming back for 4 (at least I think they did). S4's finale had Lucifer rising, which, I suppose, also could have been an end, but a very unsatisfying one.
The reason I'm talking about Season Finale's being possible ends, was because I WANTED S1 to S5 to be a complete unit. That way, if the new story-arc in S6 sucked, I would have this nice little package of a great story-arc. Except, all evidence points to the fact that S5 is going to be a cliff-hanger, so maybe it won't be all wrapped up in a bow?
Or...maybe it will....
We've also had numerous years of Jensen and Jared stating that Sam and Dean should go out like "Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid." Seriously, how many times have we heard this from them? I'm not saying their wrong - I agree. They are right for many reasons. Chief among them: Sam and Dean have to die at the same time - it's the only humane way to have it happen. Even if they grew old and died, one can't die before the other.
Is there anyone who hasn't seen Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid? I'm about to spoil the ending for you if you haven't.
The thing about Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid is that you don't actually SEE them die. It freezes frame as they run out of their hiding spot, and you hear the rain of bullets. So, what I'm thinking is that S5 will end much the same way - Sam and Dean will be in some epic battle (I really hope not with each other, but Con-panel evidence points to the contrary)...and there will be the APPEARANCE that they both die.
Cue S6, and you have some deus-ex-machina save them (much like S5's opening, which was quite literal to the term). In which case, S1 to S5 WOULD be a nice little package, it would just have a tragic end.
How tragic though? In the commentary for the Pilot, Kripke said that Supernatural's moral was that "family is hell", but at the Chicago Con in the summer, Kripke stated that family was going to save the world...the boys fighting with each other caused the apocalypse, the boys reconciling would stop the apocalypse. So, this is what I hope will happen:
Whether they say yes or no, evidence points to the fact that the boys will be fighting in the season finale. Jensen even went as far to say that him and Jared were filming a fight scene together very recently (he was describing how well he and Jared do fight scenes because they know each other so well - we also know that at the point there will be something wrong with one of Dean's eyes, because Jensen said he couldn't see out of one of his eyes while they were fighting). My guess is that it will look dire up until the VERY END, when the boys will HOPEFULLY come together with a good plan, or bond, or whatever, and end up defeating their enemies - however, it will look like they are destroyed in the process. So, we will get a nail biter, but with a good message...and then a tragic (but suitable) end.
Then S6 will have to figure out how to resurrect them.
Anyway, that's what I hope happens. Because I really don't want to go out of S5 on a completely depressing note, like S3 and S4. Even if everyone dies, I still want there to be a message there that family is important and the boys love each other (and are aware that they love each other).
So, although I refuse to go to Cons myself (for multitudinous reasons), I do devour all information that comes out of them...even if that means destroying my "no spoilers except preview clips!" rule.
Because of that, I've got some thinky thoughts about the rest of the season. Now, because I'm only speculating based on what was said at the Cons - PLEASE DO NOT COMMENT WITH SPOILERS!! I do not know what Episode 100 is about, I do not know what Special Guest Stars are appearing before this season closes out...so please don't spoil those surprises for me. I ONLY know what was said at the LA Con this past weekend. (Oh, I also follow one of the production staff on Twitter, but they never spoil anything...except today they said the finale was "worse than Dean going to hell")
Ok, onwards...
It looks like it's going to be a cliffhanger. I could have guess this, I suppose, because I've read the companion books, and interviews with Kripke, and he's said that he thought the S2 finale was the weakest one because there was no immediate unresolved danger at the end of it. It's interesting to think of the Supernatural cliffhangers, because they COULD just be the finale of the show (except arguably S3).
In S1, they actually didn't know if they were coming back or not when they filmed the end. So, the series could have very well ran one season and ended with the Winchesters failing to kill YED, but learning that family was more important than revenge, and then getting killed in a car accident. S2 had a PARTIAL cliffhanger with Dean only having a year to live - but if the show hadn't come back for S3, you could assume that he got out of it somehow. S3 had Dean going to hell - which, I admit, could also be the end of the series...but they knew they were coming back for 4 (at least I think they did). S4's finale had Lucifer rising, which, I suppose, also could have been an end, but a very unsatisfying one.
The reason I'm talking about Season Finale's being possible ends, was because I WANTED S1 to S5 to be a complete unit. That way, if the new story-arc in S6 sucked, I would have this nice little package of a great story-arc. Except, all evidence points to the fact that S5 is going to be a cliff-hanger, so maybe it won't be all wrapped up in a bow?
Or...maybe it will....
We've also had numerous years of Jensen and Jared stating that Sam and Dean should go out like "Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid." Seriously, how many times have we heard this from them? I'm not saying their wrong - I agree. They are right for many reasons. Chief among them: Sam and Dean have to die at the same time - it's the only humane way to have it happen. Even if they grew old and died, one can't die before the other.
Is there anyone who hasn't seen Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid? I'm about to spoil the ending for you if you haven't.
The thing about Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid is that you don't actually SEE them die. It freezes frame as they run out of their hiding spot, and you hear the rain of bullets. So, what I'm thinking is that S5 will end much the same way - Sam and Dean will be in some epic battle (I really hope not with each other, but Con-panel evidence points to the contrary)...and there will be the APPEARANCE that they both die.
Cue S6, and you have some deus-ex-machina save them (much like S5's opening, which was quite literal to the term). In which case, S1 to S5 WOULD be a nice little package, it would just have a tragic end.
How tragic though? In the commentary for the Pilot, Kripke said that Supernatural's moral was that "family is hell", but at the Chicago Con in the summer, Kripke stated that family was going to save the world...the boys fighting with each other caused the apocalypse, the boys reconciling would stop the apocalypse. So, this is what I hope will happen:
Whether they say yes or no, evidence points to the fact that the boys will be fighting in the season finale. Jensen even went as far to say that him and Jared were filming a fight scene together very recently (he was describing how well he and Jared do fight scenes because they know each other so well - we also know that at the point there will be something wrong with one of Dean's eyes, because Jensen said he couldn't see out of one of his eyes while they were fighting). My guess is that it will look dire up until the VERY END, when the boys will HOPEFULLY come together with a good plan, or bond, or whatever, and end up defeating their enemies - however, it will look like they are destroyed in the process. So, we will get a nail biter, but with a good message...and then a tragic (but suitable) end.
Then S6 will have to figure out how to resurrect them.
Anyway, that's what I hope happens. Because I really don't want to go out of S5 on a completely depressing note, like S3 and S4. Even if everyone dies, I still want there to be a message there that family is important and the boys love each other (and are aware that they love each other).
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no subject
Date: 2010-03-31 02:49 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-03-31 04:19 am (UTC)And Kripke did promise last summer that even if they went 6 seasons (and I think they were fairly confident they would), he wouldn't pull any of the punches on his apocalypse story-arc...and even recently has stated that S6 will be starting a NEW story-arc. So, I just hope he follows through with that.
If it's going to be open-ended, leave it questionably-open ended. Like maybe Butch and Sundance somehow survived, or S6 picks up AFTER the cowboys have ridden off into the sunset...you know?
I'm happy that there's going to be more, but only if there's a solid S1-S5 complete story-arc. That way S6+ is like a sequel or something extra, but S1-S5 stands as a whole.
no subject
Date: 2010-03-31 06:32 am (UTC)For God's sake, NO! Argh! They've used up all their angst coupons in my book. Bad supernatural! Bad!
On the other hand, I guess it can't be much darker than some of the things people come up with in fic.... still. someone should point out to them that the only way to really shock their audience at this point is if something nice happened to the boys for a change.
I just can't really see the bolivian army ending- they've killed Sam, Dean and I guess even Castiel too many times for that.
The mind boggles to think what they could try to do to top it. I mean, if it's supposed to all get wrapped up, no more apocalypse, what is there?
Season six set in The End 'verse? Bobby makes a deal, dies, goes to hell? That would just be so cliche at this point. Hmm. John Winchester turns out to be God, everyone has even more daddy issues, and then he dies? Um... I'm really scraping the barrel here. I guess they could do something depressing with Michael and Lucifer, but would we really care? Or! They could bring a bunch of old characters back to life just to kill them again, tragically.
Grrrr.
Oh, kind of randomly, while i'm thinking about it. Someone started a delphi forum here, http://forums.delphiforums.com/WaywardSon/ , for supernatural. Currently, it is wank and insanity free and it's kind of been fun. We've been talking about similar stuff.
no subject
Date: 2010-03-31 07:10 am (UTC)I'm picturing more like Dean and Sam either finally giving in, or appearing too anyway...or getting tricked...I don't know...but the cliffy will be that Lucifer is destroyed, but we don't know if the boys survive - like it appears they are both dead. Then S6 opens, and they are like 'oh hey! not dead!'
Actually, my idea reminds me of a poem I memorized as a kid, where there was this rabbit eating grass, and a hunter came and shot it, and then the last stanza of the poem was:
It thought it must be dead, be dead.
But wonderful to say
It found it was alive instead
And quickly ran away.
Thanks for the forum recommendation! I will check it out. I am running out of places to talk about Supernatural (besides here) since I can't stand wank or too much negativity.
And yes, I definitely agree about them having a little too much angst. They need to have good things happen before they up the angst any more, or else things are going to get ridiculous.
no subject
Date: 2010-03-31 07:21 am (UTC)Consider! Dean and Sam had sucky childhoods after their mother was murdered and their father went on a quest for revenge. they have Issues. Then Sam's girlfriend is murdered by the same demon. Then more sad things happen to them that would break any normal person. They both end up with more guilt and angst. Then! They find their father, but he gets possessed and almost kills dean. They barely manage to get out of that, but then are hit by a big truck. Then Dean is in a coma and almost dies. Then their dad trades his life and the only weapon they have against the demon for Dean's life. Then they find out actually he went to hell. And that Sam has a very dark destiny. Then there is some more angst. Then Sam dies, and Dean sells his soul. Then more depressing things happen, and Dean goes to hell, and is tortured for 30 years before turning torturer. He then starts the apocalypse, and his brother goes quasi-sorta-not-really evil. Then more depressing things happen, that far outweight the earlier depressing things, like finding out their mother started it all because she couldn't let their father go. Then they turn on each other, Sam tries to kill his brother and finishes starting the apocalypse.
And of course, that's only up to season 4. When you get to the "summarize the storyline for someone in 5 minutes" as I did recently for my roommate, you are forced to conclude that the writers are more hooked on angst than sam was on demon blood ;-)
no subject
Date: 2010-03-31 07:30 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-03-31 08:04 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-03-31 08:14 am (UTC)And sometimes when you're griping about "I love this show, but what the heck is up with X" someone will say, "I have no idea, but I've been pretending ABC, and thus it all makes sense!"
And then you can just run with that.
no subject
Date: 2010-03-31 08:19 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-03-31 08:23 am (UTC)What I think I like about that is that oh, it is the recognition of a flaw without it being OH MY GOD THIS SUCKS, and it's a nice little mental solution without it being OBVIOUSLY THE WRITERS MEANT TO IMPLY (something so wank-y your head explodes) AND YOU ARE JUST TOO STUPID TO SEE IT.
no subject
Date: 2010-03-31 08:28 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-03-31 08:10 am (UTC)There are people out there that love seeing the boys suffer and don't care how ridiculous it gets - and then there are people who want S1 one "things aren't that bad" again...meanwhile, they've set up these two extremely strong-willed moral characters, yet somehow still have to get them to end up doing things contrary to their beliefs so that they can get to the final showdown - so, they have to break their wills and send forces of manipulation in.
But yeah, when I said "going to get ridiculous" I probably should have said "going to get MORE ridiculous." ;-)
no subject
Date: 2010-03-31 08:17 am (UTC)Also, on smaller things like the supposed double bounty on Dean's head - well, at the very least it would have been amusing to see them, oh, spotting a jehovah's witness and hiding behind a newspaper or something. It wouldn't have had to been huge or played up for laughs, but it would have been a little reminder in the stand alone episodes.
no subject
Date: 2010-03-31 08:21 am (UTC)Good point, good point - like in the sixth Harry Potter book, when you constantly had people going missing the whole time Harry obsessed about his love-life. :-P
no subject
Date: 2010-03-31 08:26 am (UTC)Not that I'm bitter about missing out on the adventures of Neville and Co. Of course not ;)
no subject
Date: 2010-03-31 08:33 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-03-31 03:51 pm (UTC)Anyway.
(he was describing how well he and Jared do fight scenes because they know each other so well - we also know that at the point there will be something wrong with one of Dean's eyes, because Jensen said he couldn't see out of one of his eyes while they were fighting).
This is pure speculation, but do you think that Jensen was talking about those horrible eye lens that they wore for YED, or whatever demon that changed the eye colours, so maybe he was wearing those?? If it was, then S5 finale just got a lot more interesting! :)
If season 1-5 represents one arc, and season 6 starts up another story arc, then the boys and the directors and producers and fans should be prepared for more seasons , i feel. It would be pretty dumb to start up one story arc and then there's nothing beyond that season. It would KILL me.
no subject
Date: 2010-03-31 08:20 pm (UTC)What I'm worried about is the fact that Jensen and Jared contracts end at the end of S6, so it'll be renegotiation time. It's hard to get a read on those two about whether THEY want the show to continue. Sometimes it sounds like Jared wants to move on to other things - other times Jared talks about future seasons offhandedly like they are possible...I get the impression from Jensen that he just likes having a steady paycheque and would stay on. But, you never know.
I think if the show goes beyond S6, it'll be Jared and Jensen's decision and not anything to do with the viewership or the network.