To canon-AU or not to canon-AU....

[hells_half_acre]

My next month of ficlets is nearly upon us. If you want to leave me a prompt and haven't yet done so, head on over to my previous post.

Now, while we're on the topic of fanfic, let me complain to you about my current canon/fanfic troubles...

My main problem is that I want to write another demented'verse fic. I have had an opening all prepared (in my head) for the past two-three years... the problem is that timeline-wise, in order to use that opening, it pretty much has to be set in S9. I kept hoping that SPN would give me a good window and plot idea... but, alas, I've got nothing.

So, now my question is: Do I go AU? The last demented'verse fic I wrote was set in S7, so I'd have to catch up that time anyway, and, I think anyone who read my rewatch of S8 has probably realized that I had a lot of problems with the first half of that season. So, on the one hand, this could be my chance to change things a little...

...On the other hand, once you start changing things, where do you stop? How much do you change things? HOW do you change things? Do I still just run into the same problems?

The problem I have with AU, and the reason I very seldom write it, is because working within the constructs of canon gives me limits that I can use to form my plots... and I'm just not sure how good my writing would be without those enforced parameters. Also, going AU would remove the short-hand that I rely on with the readers, where I don't have to explain what Sam and Dean are currently working through, because the readers already know. That's what makes crossovers fun, after all - it's that half of your characters know things the other half don't, and you can have tons of double-meaning dialogue, where the reader is in on all the secrets without my having to explain what those secrets are.

Part of me is thinking I should just forget it. Put that 'verse to bed. Because if I can't think of a plot that fits, maybe that's just the end of it then. But, then, another part of me is pissed off because if I was going to end the 'verse, I'd have preferred to end on Seers, Souls and Scandinavians, rather than Brains and Bones, because SSS had a much better ending, IMO, and would have served as a brilliant 'verse ending. I remember struggling with the decision to write Brains and Bones for that reason, but in the end I did... and now I'm wondering if I shouldn't've.

Blaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah

TL;DR: Struggling to write another demented'verse fic. Not sure if I should stick to my canon-nazi ways. AU is a slippery slope. 

Comments

[borgmama1of5.livejournal.com]

I know exactly what you mean about canon providing a framework.

I keep thinking about rewriting seasons 8 and 9 to be what I wanted from them, but then it's like a reverse domino effect--if I fix the rift between the boys at the start of season 8 then Sam isn't upset about Benny and doesn't send Martin after him and then does Dean still have to behead him to rescue Sam from Purgatory and...

If I don't have to make it fit between 2 points it's really hard to narrow down the possibilities.

[hells-half-acre.livejournal.com]

Exactly.

Once you step on that butterfly, it suddenly becomes uncertain what future you're going to be returning to.

[grasshopr-molly.livejournal.com]

Think about it this way: the challenge is to make things come out like they did *despite* the presence of your divergence point.

[hells-half-acre.livejournal.com]

Hmmm... that's an interesting way to re-frame it. What other paths lead to the same destination - type question, instead of "if you change that, what happens next." Interesting...

[grasshopr-molly.livejournal.com]

Right, like, to take borgmama's example, let's say the boys make up at the beginning of 8 and Sam doesn't get upset about Benny. Maybe he and Benny even become friends! Wouldn't that make it *worse* when Benny has to go to Purgatory to help Sam, and Sam sees Benny coming up to him and realizes what it means, and then has to leave him?

[hells-half-acre.livejournal.com]

Very true, and that was actually my first thought when borgmama wrote that - "Benny would still die for Sam, he was miserable."

I guess it's more a matter of trying to figure out what possible plot would give me enough fodder for a crossover... it's probably just something that I have to mess around with - try to think of as many possibilities as I can and hope that one of them is good demented'verse material.

[jennytork.livejournal.com]

As someone who writes almost nothing but AUs?

DOOOOOOO IIIIIIIIT......

*grins*

[hells-half-acre.livejournal.com]

Easy for you to say, you've obviously had practice! ;)

[jennytork.livejournal.com]

Heheee, yeah, I'm a "what happens if" from WAY back.

My mother sent me a story I wrote dated one month before my fourth birthday -- where I gave Tigger a pair of glasses and he broke them bouncing!

[hells-half-acre.livejournal.com]

Ha! Cute.

When I was a kid I wrote stories about anthropomorphic snowflakes, rabbits, and dragons... and all my "fanfic" was extremely mary-sue self-insert. So, yeah... I do not have a proud tradition of thinking outside the box. :P

[jennytork.livejournal.com]

*grin* And mine was always about what would happen if the Fantastic Four traded powers.... what would happen if Jimmy Olsen gained Superman's vision powers.... what would happen if Spock was left blind.... What if Jim kirk developed brain damage that wouldn't let him say any first person pronoun out loud without pain.... What if my dog was a were-human......

[hells-half-acre.livejournal.com]

True. I was also a hurt/comfort fan even as a kid, so at least THAT hasn't changed.

[grasshopr-molly.livejournal.com]

First piece of fic I ever wrote was Next Gen hurt/comfort. :)

[hells-half-acre.livejournal.com]

First fic I ever wrote IN MY HEAD was also Next Gen h/c, :P

I didn't actually write fanfic down on "paper" for others to see until much much later and so I think that technically the first fic I ever wrote was for a friend of mine where I had her favourite character show up and rescue her from her horrible job... and have sex with her, though I gracefully faded to black for that scene. ;)

[cappy712.livejournal.com]

Maybe if you had someone or a few someones to pitch the verse that you are thinking of using and how it might fit....

I'm a willing sounding board if you wanted to try and pitch it - could the idea be re-tweaked and put into a different season? It might work with a rethinking of the opening??? Just a thought.

[hells-half-acre.livejournal.com]

Unfortunately, timeline wise, it pretty much has to be in S9... it's either that or I wait until S10... or some other future season. Which, I suppose is an option, and maybe one I'll end up using if I sit around stewing over this long enough. It works best though in S9.

The main thing is that regardless of where I set it, whether I use that opening or not, I still have to deal with the events of S8 and S9 and how they fit into that 'verse... so even if I ditch that idea, I'm still left with the same problem.

[liliaeth]

You might disagree with me on this, but I think that this being demented verse, it would almost have to be au.

Think about it this way, leaving aside whether Sam knew Dean was still alive or not, or if he was in shock or whether he bothered to look for Dean or not... the fact is that he believed himself alone and had limited resources.

In the demented verse though, that is not the case. The moment Harry finds out that Dean is either dead or missing, he'd come look him up and help out.
With Harry's help, they'd probably at the very least try and find out if Dean is alive or not, which would make a huge difference in Dean's reaction when he returns.

You could still take the parts of canon that you did like, but alter them keeping those changes in mind, while getting rid of the whole 'Sam didn't even bother to look for Dean' bit because Harry'd be there.

[hells-half-acre.livejournal.com]

Yes, exactly. You've hit the nail on the head right there about why I've been struggling with what going AU means... as in, I know that I have to go at least partially AU, but the question is how much - how slippery is that slope? Do I just change the beginning of S8 and then synch things back up again, or do I change more so that I can actually fit in the story that I want to write?

But yes, you are dead on with why I pretty much HAVE to go AU for at least the "catch up" portion of the story... but what exact form that AU will take is still up for debate. I COULD have Harry get involved, fail to locate Dean, leave Sam in Texas, and then Dean could still be pissed off when he gets back that Sam didn't look for Kevin (perhaps Sam doesn't even tell Harry about Kevin for some weird reason like my headcanon of Sam actually having a psychotic break) and Dean could still be upset that Sam didn't seem to be obsessing about Dean's death like usual... and not much would change in the long run. Or having Harry around to help could change everything - they could find Kevin sooner, before Dean comes back, for instance, and the Dean wouldn't really have anything to be angry about (besides his usual PTSD) and the is Sam still fine with dying on the third trial? Does he still feel like he failed Dean and needs to be redeemed?

I don't know, it's a hard thing to juggle... and do I want to bother if I'm not even leading them to a cool future story set in S9, since I can't for the life of me think of a good plot for one past the opening?

[grasshopr-molly.livejournal.com]

So I just had an idea.

What if Harry shows up, thinks he has a way to get Dean back, tries it, and it blows up in his/their face(s)? And then Sam has all kinds of guilt for getting Harry hurt, and that's one of the reasons why he stops looking.

(As for the redemption thing, that's basically one of the cornerstones of Sam's personality. He always thinks he needs to be redeemed, at least since he found out about the demon blood.)

[hells-half-acre.livejournal.com]

Oh, I already know how I want to deal with Sam not looking for Dean and how Harry factors into that... because that AU also fixes a problem I had with the latter half of S7. But thanks for throwing me ideas anyway, just in case I hadn't thought of it!

It's mainly that I can't decide if I want to factor in the Kevin storyline or not... and it's true, Sam would probably still be self-sacrificial even without Dean's anger... and probably the latter half of S8 would still play out the same.

It's mainly the Kevin storyline that I'm not sure how to deal with... and then trying to figure out how to fit the story that I actually WANT to write into s9... that's the main trouble. I'm not actually that worried about the "catch-up" part of the story... it's figuring out the plot and story of the s9 portion, do I want that to be AU? If so, HOW MUCH of an AU? Do I want to completely diverge from canon or stick to it? If I completely diverge what would that mean for future stories? Or should I find a way to put this 'verse to rest once and for all?

[grasshopr-molly.livejournal.com]

The Kevin storyline is fun because it's pretty completely out of the range of experience of the wizarding world. :)

In my experience, AUs tend to work best when they keep the themes of the original even if they don't use the exact same events. I'm not sure what that would mean for your plot, but maybe it's helpful?

[hells-half-acre.livejournal.com]

Maybe!

The main problem is that I really just can't think of a good plot for a story. I can think of the "meet-cute" that would bring the two universes together again, but that's all. So, maybe it's not even a problem of me going AU or not, it's just a problem of not having any ideas for plot regardless.

[liliaeth]

Benny is another thing that would change though. In the HP verse, they have candy made specifically for vampires, and there's a vampire invited to that Slytherin teacher's student party in the sixth book.
Which means, they'd have a way to manage vampirism. not a cure, but at least a way to keep the bloodthirst down.

And Dean might ask Harry about that, to help Benny. Making Benny less likely to want to die and go back to Purgatory.

I like the idea of Harry getting hurt in Sam's attempt to open Purgatory, and if you then have Dean, unable to explain why he's friends with a vampire, sneaking around, talking to Harry, asking him for help with Benny...

And Sam'd already be guilty about Harry, not daring to talk to Harry who of course isn't blaming him, ...

[hells-half-acre.livejournal.com]

Sounds like you two should write the harry-gets-hurt AU... it's a good idea, I just have something else in mind.

And good point about Benny... hmm... that would throw a spanner in the works, then again, maybe Dean could actually just prevent Crowley from killing the reaper and then there'd be no need for Benny to sacrifice himself. Or maybe Benny would not like earth despite being able to manage blood cravings - after all, it wasn't just the lack of hunger he missed about purgatory, it was knowing his place and knowing how to be happy in it.

[supernutjapan.livejournal.com]

Well, I want to read your Demented Verse so if you figure out a way to do it, please do it!

I think what someone said, figuring out a different way from point a to point b might be a good idea, then you don't have to go off on a totally different road and it would help you figure out a plot too.

[franztastisch]

I feel I should say this. The first time I read demented verse, I hadn't yet got to the end of season 5. Therefore, your references to Sam in the panic room meant nothing to me. But regardless of this, I thought it was brilliant. The ftame of reference you're worrying about matters less tha you think because the story works even without it. I mean, I haven't watched past... 7x21 and I will still read and enjoy this story, if it happens. My not knowing the storyline of s8 and s9 will not change that. So even people who know those storylines will understand the story if you were to write it without that frame of reference. I wouldn't worry about that.

[franztastisch]

And cleaEly the more important question is: will Nate turn up? :P

[hells-half-acre.livejournal.com]

Yes, yes he would... which is why I REALLY want to figure this out. :P

[franztastisch]

I appove of your dedication to bringing Nate to the people. :P

[hells-half-acre.livejournal.com]

Thanks! That actually does help me feel less nervous about messing around with canon. :)

[franztastisch]

I'm glad. :) An adherence to canon shouldn't be the thing that stops you writing something you want to write. :)

[morganlucas41.livejournal.com]

I know I haven't commented in a while, but just dropping by to say...definitely write more demented!verse. I hear what you're saying about straying away from canon, and I get how that can be a slippery slope. I don't know what basic premise you're working with, but would there be any way to start off at some point in S9, and then jump off into more AU territory after that? Either way, I personally would LOVE to read more demented!verse. And, given that I wasn't crazy about S9 in general, wouldn't mind if it was more AU. Not sure how helpful this is, but just my two cents!

[hells-half-acre.livejournal.com]

It's always helpful to know that there are people who want to read what I'm struggling to write! It makes the struggle worth it. ;)

[khek.livejournal.com]

More Demented!Verse, please! I don't care how canon has to be tweaked, I just want more. :)

I read AUs, and they don't bother me at all. I do think it's more interesting and believable when events diverge for a bit, then come back to the same point in a different way. And that way, you still have a point of reference for returning to canon.

If it's Kevin's storyline that's bothering you, is there any way to take it out completely? Like, Harry and co know that he's going to be killed, but they take him out to their world and put in some kind of construct to be killed by Gadreel/Sam? They know that it will make Sam feel terrible, but the only way to save Kevin is to have the boys think he's gone...and they'll eventually return him, healthy and whole and alive, to the Supernatural world.

I don't know...I'd actually buy anything that would return Kevin alive. And both universes have people "helping" by keeping major secrets for someone else's "own good".

[hells-half-acre.livejournal.com]

Thanks!

I'm not really sure what storyline is bugging me... though, it did occur to me the other day that if I went AU, I might be able to save Gadreel... not that his ending wasn't good, it's just that I'm sad he's dead. So, I don't know... it's not so much that I want to rescue characters really, it's just perhaps that I can't figure out an interesting plot and want the option of completely changing things on the off chance that will inspire something.