hells_half_acre: (Scary!Dean)
[personal profile] hells_half_acre
I need your guys' opinion...  (and yes, that is acceptable colloquial grammar in Canadaland)

So, remember back in Season 5, in the episode Dark Side of the Moon, when two hunters named Roy and Walt totally killed Sam and Dean and Dean was SUPER pissed off about it. And he told Roy and Walt that he was going to kill them when he got back from being dead....

Do you think, all these years later, he'd kill Roy and Walt, if he came across them?

It's been 6 years, chronologically, and 4 years in the narrative... unless Dean went off an killed Roy and Walt in a non-televised adventure, he seems to have forgotten about them, changed his mind, or it's a very very low priority.

So, in your opinion, if Dean were to say ACCIDENTALLY come upon them, what do you think his reaction would be? What do you think Sam's reaction would be?

(I may or may not need this information for a fic, btw... it's an idea that I've been toying with for a while, but the more time passes, the more I'm uncertain what the most believable way to write such a scene would be.)

I know LJ has been a bit dead recently, but PLEASE share your opinion - I'd really really appreciate it. Even if you're a lurker and have never spoken to me before...or even if you hate-read my LJ (do I have hate-readers? don't answer that), please let me know what you think! I don't have anonymous posting turned on, because I kept getting too much spam... but I know you can leave comments through FB, twitter, G+ etc too, so you don't necessarily need an LJ account.

(And obviously, none of us know what the Mark is doing to Dean, so for the time being, you can factor that into your answer if you like, but you can also give your opinion about what Dean would do sans Mark, or back in S8, rather than right now. It's up to you!)

Date: 2014-04-16 11:04 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ramblin-rosie.livejournal.com
I had Deaf!Dean give Rachel permission to "terminate with extreme prejudice," but that was a S6 AU. Right now, he may have forgotten, but if reminded, especially with the Mark, I think he'd probably at least try to kill them. Ditto when he was fresh from Purgatory in early S8. At any other time... well, it might depend on whether he simply saw them again or whether they threatened Sam again. S7, at least, I think he might be too mired in depression to care unless they were still an active threat.

Date: 2014-04-16 11:08 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hells-half-acre.livejournal.com
Cool... I can't disagree with your assessment.

Thanks for weighing in and addressing different time periods. :)

Date: 2014-04-16 11:13 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] caranfindel.livejournal.com
I think at this point, too much water under the bridge, he'd let them go (unless the Mark influenced him to do otherwise). But he'd scare the crap out of them. Earlier, he might. He did go after Samuel Campbell.

Date: 2014-04-16 11:15 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hells-half-acre.livejournal.com
Cool. Thanks!

Date: 2014-04-16 11:21 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] metallidean-grl.livejournal.com
I do think that too much time has passed, and too much has happened in the lives of Dean and Sam to probably care one way or another about Roy and Walt.

I would presume that Dean might still carry a grudge and maybe want to make them pay in some hurtful forms of expression instead of out right killing them. Someone mentioned that he did go after Samuel Campbell, but remember, that was within a years' time so the memories were still fresh. The Walt and Roy incident, as you pointed out, has been 4 years. If Dean or Sam had run into them within that year, I would think Dean would have gladly blown them away, but I don't think he would do that now.

Then again, if he ran into these two again and they threatened some form of bodily harm to himself or to Sam or to anyone else within his "family" unit, I don't think Dean would hesitate twice to kill them, he would gladly put them out of their misery.

Date: 2014-04-16 11:35 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hells-half-acre.livejournal.com
Cool! Thanks, this is the direction I was leaning in as well... but was unsure, so it helps to have other people's opinions who may view the characters a little differently than I do.

Then again, if he ran into these two again and they threatened some form of bodily harm to himself or to Sam or to anyone else within his "family" unit, I don't think Dean would hesitate twice to kill them, he would gladly put them out of their misery.

Follow-up question - what if they threatened someone in his "family unit", but it was a misunderstanding... like, they thought the person was a monster, when he's harmless (it's similar to what they thought of Sam after all.) Do you think Dean would just correct them, maybe beat them up a little, and let them go? Or do you think he'd kill them for making the same mistake twice?

Date: 2014-04-17 01:36 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ramblin-rosie.livejournal.com
If, say, they went after Garth? Or if they looked crosswise at Krissie or Charlie or Mama Tran? Yeah, no second chances. He'd kill 'em (or else hold them down and let their intended victim do the honors). That would put them too close to Gordon in his book, I think.
Jody wouldn't give him a chance, I think. She'd blow those blockheads away herself.

Date: 2014-04-17 01:43 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hells-half-acre.livejournal.com
Awesome. Thanks! Garth is a good example for that scenario, because it's not like they're wrong about what he is, but they're wrong about the threat level, much like when they got it wrong with Sam.

I also just realized that I've been debating whether Sam or Dean would try to correct them or kill them - but I should also be thinking about whether Roy or Walt would be willing to even listen. As you say, they COULD be compared to Gordon - unwilling to hear the other side. They certainly didn't give Sam or Dean very much change to defend themselves when they attacked them, what with breaking in when they were sleeping and blowing them away pretty much as soon as they woke up.

Date: 2014-04-17 04:45 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] metallidean-grl.livejournal.com
Hmmm.....your follow-up question is a good one. I'm not sure how to answer that. I know Dean says that he is a shoot first ask questions later kinda guy, but when exactly has Dean really been and done that? If Walt and Roy had hurt someone in his family and Dean got the upper hand, I think he would tie them up, torture and question first and foremost, then decide whether or not to kill. Like Dean has said, they don't kill people, unless motivated towards that, or had no other option. If Walt and Roy had killed someone in his family, then I think all bets are off and he would probably kill, no questions asked.

Date: 2014-04-17 05:03 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hells-half-acre.livejournal.com
Cool. Thanks for the opinion! This alllllll helps. :)

Date: 2014-04-16 11:28 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ratherastory.livejournal.com
The Dean from the current timeline likely wouldn't kill them unless they were an active threat. OTOH, these days he's bloodthirsty enough that he'd probably make them pay in creative and painful ways for what they did, just for the hell of it. I'm guessing he'd hurt them/make them soil themselves and then leave them to wallow in their own humiliation.

Date: 2014-04-16 11:29 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hells-half-acre.livejournal.com
Cool. Thanks so much! This all helps. :)

Date: 2014-04-16 11:40 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] missyjack.livejournal.com
I'd like to think he would hardly remember them! And when he did he'd mock them and be all "you guys couldn't even kill us right!"

or maybe he'd even be understanding - i mean from their POV killing the guy who started the apocalypse was not unreasonable!

Date: 2014-04-16 11:42 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hells-half-acre.livejournal.com
Very good point - with all the time that's passed, he might just be like "oh yeah...you guys!" and meanwhile they'd probably be terrified and have been hiding from him this whole time, because I doubt you ever just forget that you pissed off a seemingly-immortal Dean Winchester. :P

Date: 2014-04-17 12:10 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] borgmama1of5.livejournal.com
In my mind he offed them shortly after the original incident--nobody hurts his brother! But if he had been too busy to bother then, I would say it depends on what they were doing when their paths crossed. If they gave him any excuse, he would end them. If it was totally innocent, say in a bar somewhere, he would probably enjoy the hell out of terrorizing them but leave them alive.

Date: 2014-04-17 12:18 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hells-half-acre.livejournal.com
Hmm... good thoughts! thanks!

They'd be really good hunters to use for the scene I'm thinking of, but then again, part of me kind of thinks it's been TOO long and that Dean either HAS already offed them off-screen, or they've been offed by something else and Dean was saved the trouble.

Date: 2014-04-17 12:23 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jennytork.livejournal.com

No matter when it is, if he accidentally runs across Roy and Walt?

Dean will be driving away, leaving the buzzards two very nice bodies to feast on.

Date: 2014-04-17 12:31 am (UTC)

Date: 2014-04-17 03:07 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] thestarkat.livejournal.com
Our boy can hold a grudge, so especially if they were threatening Dean's 'family' he'd off them. He might not bother if he didn't consider them a real threat, but it wouldn't surprise me if he has a list somewhere with their names on it of people that need a good killin'.

Date: 2014-04-17 03:21 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hells-half-acre.livejournal.com
Cool, thanks!

I've been leaning more towards the idea that he'd still kill them, but I wasn't sure if I had too...dark?... a view of Dean's personality.

How about Sam? Do you think he'd be on board the killing train too?

Date: 2014-04-17 03:27 am (UTC)
ext_58293: (Default)
From: [identity profile] bard2003.livejournal.com
sam of now? no. never. but if he met them in soulness fase? yes. on the spot.

Date: 2014-04-17 03:29 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hells-half-acre.livejournal.com
Hmmm... cool. Thanks for the thoughts! :)

Date: 2014-04-17 04:21 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ramblin-rosie.livejournal.com
I've actually read a fic along those lines--Roy and Walt cross paths with RoboSam, and he kills them without a second thought. Cannot remember title or author for the life of me, though.

Date: 2014-04-17 04:30 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] thestarkat.livejournal.com
I don't think Sam would be on board. He's more forgiving and interested in second chances, I think.

I'm not sure you can have too dark a view of Dean's personality. :)

Date: 2014-04-17 04:33 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hells-half-acre.livejournal.com
Haha, true enough.

That's the way I was leaning with Sam too... he IS the type to get shot in the chest and killed, and then turn around and be like "it's okay, I understand." Oh Sam.

Date: 2014-04-17 03:22 am (UTC)
ext_58293: (Default)
From: [identity profile] bard2003.livejournal.com
I always thought that he did it in one of the "sam`s gone" times or when the brothers were separated. Met them accidently or looked them up while drinking on the way to lisa`s?

Date: 2014-04-17 03:24 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hells-half-acre.livejournal.com
Hmmm... so if I DID use them in a story years later, it'd run counter to headcanons like this. (Which I think are cool, and can't disagree with in terms of them being a real possibility.)

Thanks! :)

Date: 2014-04-17 03:27 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] khek.livejournal.com
I think if he met them now, he wouldn't kill them. He might scare them, and let them THINK he was going to kill them, but then he would tell them they weren't worth his time or energy.

Unless the mark of Cain plays into it somehow, since they're brothers. (They were brothers too, weren't they? Or is the fact that Roy and Walt Disney were brothers throwing me off?)

Anyway, no killing. Scaring to death, but that's it.

Date: 2014-04-17 03:31 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hells-half-acre.livejournal.com
I thought they were cousins... I'm going to look it up on SuperWiki... hmmm, doesn't say. So I think we are both being thrown off by Disney.

So, it's probably safe to figure that your opinion is: No killing, just scaring, unless influenced in some way by the Mark of Cain.

Thanks! All good stuff. :)

Date: 2014-04-17 04:27 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] strgazr04.livejournal.com
I could be totally wrong but I could have sworn that the Js were once asked this at a con not long after that episode aired. I remember them being at a breakfast panel saying how there would be a scene in an upcoming script where Roy and Walt were 'taken care of' or something along those lines. My only guess is that it was cut out of the script during edits. Personally I would have loved to see it. They could have even tied it in as a teaser in that episode with the Leviathan doubles of Sam and Dean. Could you imagine if one day Roy and Walt turn on the news to see the Winchesters not only alive but tearing up a bank looking insane and murderous? I would have loved that!

Date: 2014-04-17 04:35 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hells-half-acre.livejournal.com
Oh? Crazy. If you remember what Con it was, let me know.

Roy and Walt would be REALLY handy to use for the scene I have in mind, so I'm a bit reluctant to use a headcanon where they've already been dealt with...

But it's cool to find out how many people think they HAVE already been dealt with.

And I agree, if Roy and Walt ARE still alive, they are probably living in fear, meanwhile, the Winchesters have probably completely forgotten about them, given all the bigger fish they have to fry.

Date: 2014-04-17 06:59 am (UTC)
yalumesse: (Default)
From: [personal profile] yalumesse
OOOOHOHOO. I think Dean would, at the very least, punch them on sight. Depending on whether he's exhausted, angry or whatever, he might keep punching/kicking etc, depending on whether Sam or Cas is there to stop him. He could go very cold and put a gun to their throats and say something flat and hard like "I told you I'd kill you" - that one rings most true to me. Whether or not he actually does or just scares the crap out of them, idk.

I guess he could also just deflate and decide that, compared to everything else that's been out to kill them, these guys just don't rank high enough to bother. But they are actually one of the few who did kill the boys, at least that they can remember.

*waves LJ Forever flag*

Date: 2014-04-17 07:39 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hells-half-acre.livejournal.com
Awesome! Thanks!

I think I'm starting to form what I might end up writing... I THINK..., this is all a big maybe anyway, because I'm not sure I've got enough fodder for the rest of the fic. But I was curious.

*waves LJ Forever flag too*

Date: 2014-04-17 07:26 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] msninacat.livejournal.com
I think it would depend on his frame if mind at the time. The mark makes me feel like he definitely would. Without the mark, I think he would if he felt they were threatening them again.

Date: 2014-04-17 07:27 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hells-half-acre.livejournal.com
Cool, thanks! :)

Date: 2014-04-17 11:56 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] claudiapriscus.livejournal.com
My feeling is that, disappointingly, Ray and Walt wouldn't even ping Dean's radar as worth noticing at this point. And I think that's been true since that moment in the final moments of the episode itself when the giant bucket of God-angst + Sam angst was dumped on him.

I've actually given it a fair amount of thought, because when I wrote that sort-of AU about the sheriff finding their dead bodies, I was only able to make it sort-of work (Dean going after them, I mean) by interrupting the flow of that angst and giving them a lot of other minor annoyances to deal with the keep it all safely at bay long enough for a little revenge (and to steal back the keys). And even then it always felt a little false. The angst was just too damn strong.

Date: 2014-04-18 12:18 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hells-half-acre.livejournal.com
So, that's the scenario of hunting them down - what if, say, they came across them some other way - or, more specifically, let's say they discovered that Roy and Walt were trying to go after someone like Garth, not understanding that, although he was a monster, he wasn't a threat... what do you think they would do in a situation like that?

Would they simply warn them off/reason with them, or do you think that they've become hardened enough that they'd just kill them, for both the threat to someone they care more about now and the past offence?

Date: 2014-04-18 08:51 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] claudiapriscus.livejournal.com
Hmm. I think it would depend how they caught them. If they caught them in the act of attacking, I could see them killing them- not with any intention, but just habitually brutality, maybe? (Also, the whole mark thing). On the other hand, if the attack were less dire or if they caught them watching, I think they'd just chase them off with dire threats, because...well it's been a while and they had a get-out-of-death-free card. Dean can be fierce, but he doesn't really go in for long-simmering revenge, so since Sam is fine, I don't think what they did before would really cause him to go over the edge. I think both of them would have issues, given time to think about it, about killing other hunters. Or at least, if convinced it was the only solution, they'd have angst about it.

I think it also depends on who they're defending. I can see them defending Garth, but getting less hair-trigger temper about it. now, if he weren't tragically dead/in purgatory, if it were Benny...well, there's kind of textual evidence for that, especially in regards to dean. Someone like Benny (or Cas, for that matter) with whom there's that deeper more familiar relationship, I can see, for example Dean, doing his best to warn someone off but if they cross the line, he wouldn't care if they end up dead.

Date: 2014-04-20 03:59 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cappy712.livejournal.com
I have to say a lot of time has passed but if Dean and Sam came across Roy and Walt - first I think they would be very shocked and thinking they were not who they say they are (shifter or other supernatural creature) due to the fact that Roy and Walt know they shot them.

The fact is if Dean ran into them I really think he wouldn't be able to hold off now. Especially with the Mark.

It would be interesting to see Roy and Walt's reaction to the season 7 Levi Dean and Levi Sam going about killing. They probably were yelling at the TV saying that's not that, we dealt with those guys back in 2010 - what a shock it would be for Roy and Walt.

Hope all the input helps.

Date: 2014-04-20 04:14 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hells-half-acre.livejournal.com
Cool. Thanks!

I have a headcanon that news/gossip travels around the Hunter society - so Roy and Walt would know fairly quickly, or at least by the end of S6, that Dean and Sam were still alive.

But yeah, I do wonder what their reaction would be to S7's LeviWinchesters' murdering spree.


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