hells_half_acre: (Then and Now)
[personal profile] hells_half_acre
Early quick reaction tonight, because my friends went out and so I broke into their house and watched their PVRed east-coast feed at 7pm... but there was no one to talk to about the episode after, so I just left, did my grocery shopping, and came home. This also means that I'm considerably less drunk than usual too... will that help me better remember the episode?! PROBABLY NOT!

So, standard disclaimer still applies - I have only seen the episode once, while drinking, and quotes and maybe some sequences of events are going to be slightly off in this quick reaction. Please don't correct anything unless I'm WAY off to the point where it affects a major plot or character point.

I'll tell you another thing before the cut too... choosing a song from my iPod for the cut-text has never been easier, given the state of everyone's relationships...

Oh, the anvils in this episode... but I don't even care.

So, we begin with a girl taking pictures of herself in her room... and it reminded me a lot of the Bloody Mary episode, just, you know..., in room decor and general creepiness. Well done.

Dude, rattle off your address to the 911 operator. Scary dude in your room already knows that you're in there... also, do you ever notice that 911 operators always tend to be women on TV shows? I wonder if that reflects real life too, or if it's more a 50/50 split... hmm... personally, I think women's stress/fear response is probably better suited to the job, so I wouldn't be surprised. Women tend to become super-chill in a crisis - statistically speaking, because our brain releases super-chill chemicals in such situations. Personally, i can be a little TOO chill, which is another problem altogether. Anyway, I have gotten WAY off topic...neuroscience is not our topic!

So, we go to the bunker, where Sam and Dean are chillin'... the thing I both like and loathe about the bunker is that you can never tell what time of day it is. They have the lights off in the atrium (shut-up, I'm calling it the atrium), but that just means that they didn't turn on the lights there.

What is Dean even looking for when he comes in the room? Kevin isn't around anymore. Cas isn't hiding around a corner...

Anyway, Dean is taking off for a case, ostensibly without Sam, because Dean figures that Sam wants nothing to do with him. Dean's sort of an all or nothing kind of guy, and doesn't really understand that Sam is still cool with working with him, he just doesn't want to hang out with Dean until Dean realizes what he did was wrong.

So, it's off to Washington state to investigate the death... and they role up to a very nice house that kind of reminds me of my sister's place down in Washington state, so good jorb, locations (kind of easy, since Vancouver has whole neighbourhoods with the same look, but STILL.)

And they talk to the mother of the dead girl...ugh, that sucks. And they find out that she's already been in touch with some "Supernaturalists" (hehehe) who are investigating if there was something paranormal behind the death. So, then Sam and Dean head off to find... wait, do they go to the cops first? No, I don't think so....

THE GHOSTFACERS! I love the Ghostfacers. I've got my own headcanons for them and everything, though I'll get into that later....

And yeah, the scene in the diner is great, with Dean threatening to shoot them with basically every second sentence...or maybe every sentence? And the actors who play Ed and Harry are great as usual at bringing those characters to ridiculous life.

In the course of the conversation, of course, Harry tells Sam and Dean that they aren't dealing with a ghost, they're dealing with Thinman. To which Dean claims shenanigans and storms off in a huff... or something like that... the point is, the stage has been set.

Back at the motel, Sam looks up the Thinman stuff (and I love how Supernatural basically does Slenderman without using the term, but making it VERY obvious that they're doing Slenderman). ANYWAY... Sam looks up Thinman and discovers that Ed and Harry wrote the book on it. Meanwhile, Dean sticks to his ghost theory... even though the EMF readings can't be counted on because of the house being near powerlines... and all this was REALLY reminding me of the first episode with Ed and Harry and the Tulpa, to the point where I was like "It's a tulpa!" and when Sam and Dean didn't say the same thing, I was like "oh god, did the writers forget that they've already DONE a tulpa, WITH THE SAME CHARACTERS?!"

But, hey, not a tulpa... which we'll get into later, again...

I actually forget when Sam and Dean went to the sheriff's place to look at the evidence. So, I'll just talk about it now. I thought there was something up with the Sheriff being away, but I assumed it might be because the Sheriff was the Thinman... all the leaked data was coming from active crimescenes, which meant that the leak was in the Sheriff's office, so yeah... I didn't actually put it together, though I DID suspect that there was a possibility that we were dealing with real people.

Meanwhile, the Ghostfacers are filming their stuff at the dead girls house. Well, Ed is trying to film, while Harry obsesses over his ex-girlfriend, and whether or not she's moved on. Ed finally gets Harry's head back in the game. Though, he does suggest that maybe they should leave this to Sam and Dean...only for Harry to comment about how many chicks taking down the Thinman is going to get them, and how they'll need snorkels because they'll be drowning in p- AND the girls' mother walks in, and I have to admit, I laughed. So inappropriate and horrible, so funny. Also I like the fact that it was Harry saying it, and Ed was just kind of like "okay..." because that fits my headcanons...which again, I'll get into later...

Then the manager at the diner gets it... and it's true that I knew from the few lines that the bus boy and him spoke earlier, that they must be important - but when he died, I just assumed it was to set up who he was before they killed him or something... I'm kind of dumb sometimes, I should have remembered the bus boy spoke too, and that they don't really have to set up their second deaths unless there's something about the set-up that's important.

Sam and Dean go into investigate to find the Ghostfacers already there. The deputy has let them in because apparently the department had some success finding a body with a psychic the year before - so he figured why not? Again, this should have been a red-flag, but it didn't register with me.

Dean tries to talk Harry into leaving, but he pulls the whole "I will out you as a fake FBI, if you press this." So, yeah... a pretty smart card to play, actually.

They see the surveillance footage, and it DOES look like they're looking for something that can teleport....

I totally forget when they have the conversation with Harry and Ed about whether or not it's a tulpa. You'll have to forgive me... but I DO like the fact that they brought it up as a possibility. That being said, Ed's defense of it NOT being a tulpa means that there had to be some point way back in S1 where Sam and Dean TOLD Harry and Ed about what was really in the Hell House.... it's either that, or Ed has actually done research and just knows what tulpa is and possibly still doesn't realize that that's what they were dealing with in Hell House... I don't know, continuity error or mystery for the ages or both?

Anyway, it's split up time. Dean and Sam go back to the hotel and start spit-balling ideas... Sam comes up with the slightly lame Crossroads Demon while playing the game of "what do we know that teleports?"... and then they discover that the surveillance footage has been leaked to the web, and... Sam laments that viral videos used to be adorable things, rather than grizzly murders...

And then we get the CUTEST/MOST-HEARTBREAKING Weechester story!! Though, let's be honest, Weechester stories are always both simultaneously cute and heartbreaking. But apparently Sam jumped off a shed trying to fly as Batman when he was five and broke his arm... trying to imitate 9 year-old Dean who had moments before successfully jumped off the shed and NOT broken anything while pretending to be Superman. And I love how Dean talks like the fault of Sam's plan was that he was Batman and Batman can't fly. Hahaha... awww. But then the story gets even better/worse, because Dean drove Sam to the ER on the handlebars of his bike... and UGH MY HEART. I mean, how CPS wasn't called, I don't know, because that means that a 9 year-old and a 5-year-old were playing completely unsupervised...to the point where there wasn't even anyone around to drive them to the hospital. Geeeeeeeeeeeeeezus.

But Sam and Dean laugh about it, and it's a MOMENT... there's still a ton of love there, even if Sam is super pissed that Dean isn't understanding the problem that they have, and Dean is super pissed that Sam is super pissed.

What happens next? Oh yeah, Ed and Harry... Harry wants to go to the woods to find the Thinman, because he apparently likes trees and the woods is where trees hang out. Ed, meanwhile, is really thinking that should let Sam and Dean handle things... to the point where you can tell there is SOMETHING UP. I wasn't sure if maybe Ed had just matured and realized they were in over their heads or if there was something more too it... but yeah...

And sure enough, Ed drops Harry off at some woods, and then he goes to see the Winchesters himself... and confesses that he invented the Thinman. That he was the one who launched it and promoted it until it became somewhat viral on the forums... and he did it because he needed to keep Harry's attention - because Harry was going to get married to his girlfriend and get a job in her father's company or something... and it would be the end of the Ghostfacers, and Ed couldn't stand the thought of that. He was fine with letting Spruce and Maggie go, but he needed Harry to stick with him.... but now people were dying and he didn't know what to do!

Well, first things first, you go find Harry in the woods... but alas, Harry has already been stabbed! Well, slightly grazed anyway. I loved the whole sequence of them driving up to Harry, who has his hand pressed to his stomach and nearly faints. So good.

I should say, that I love the way that Sam and Dean, while threatening the Ghostfacers too, always treat them like people when the situation calls for it. They actually show a lot of care for the Ghostfacers in this episode, in my opinion.

I also love the fact that Dean goes off to see if he can find evidence of whoever "knifed you" - they're already on the 'we're hunting a person' train of thought. I guess, I like the fact that just because it's most likely humans, Sam and Dean don't stop the hunt. You could argue that they should, but I like the fact that they don't.

Then it's time for the moment of truth between Ed and Harry... where Ed has to confess that the Thinman was never real - that he basically spoon-fed Harry a myth to make Harry feel like he was accomplishing something as a Ghostfacer. And ouch... it's basically saying that the last however-many-years/months of Harry's life's work was a complete fraud. And to top that off, Harry left his girlfriend to investigate the Thinman, believing that it was their big break... and I mean, you could argue that obviously the relationship might have already been in trouble if Harry was willing to do that, and I guess that's Ed's argument - that life wasn't right for Harry and Harry just needed an excuse...

...but you could also see if from Harry's point of view. Where he was lied to because Ed was desperate not to be alone... and not to have the ghostfacers end. And Harry points out that people have died, and personally, in my headcanon, that's part of the problem with Ed. Because my headcanon is that Ed is actually bisexual and honestly DID love Corbett, that that wasn't just a lie that he told Corbett's death echo/ghost. And Corbetts' death kind of means nothing if the Ghostfacers don't stay a thing... like if that doesn't lead to something great, then it was just a horribly pointless death. Of course, this headcanon doesn't necessarily jive with the webseries, where the Ghostfacers disbanded and it was Harry who pulled everyone back together again... but whatever.

ANYWAY... anvils anvils everywhere, because this is once again a lie coming between two bestfriends/brothers... and it seems, an unforgivable lie.

But we still have to resolve the episode! Dean gets info that the car tracks he saw near the park where Harry was attacked belong to a car of the nightshift dude at a factory outside of town... so Sam and Dean head off to investigate.

And as SOON as I saw the cop car, and the door was already open, and Sam and Dean turned their back on the cop - well, in that 2 seconds right before they got tazed, I knew that that the cop had been in on it the whole time.

Sure enough, it's a "scream situation" where there are two partners playing a supernatural being. The busboy and the cop. Busboy killed the girl because she wouldn't go out with him, and his boss because he hated his boss... and meanwhile the cop is just in it for the internet fame. So, they're both pretty much psychos.

They tied Sam and Dean up and plan to kill them too, but of course they monologue long enough that a curious Ed and Harry arrive... Ed and Harry, of course, decide to see the case through to the end and follow Sam and Dean....

Before we get to them though, I do love that despite all their fighting, Sam and Dean still work really well together. I love all the silent communication that goes on when Sam is picking at his cuffs and Dean does his best to distract the bad guys and keep them talking so that they don't notice.

Sam's not quite quick enough though, and Dean is just about to have his throat slit, when Harry and Ed come to the rescue!... by accident. They make a noise and the two bad guys head off to investigate.

I kind of wanted Ed and Harry to actually save the day, but instead they get captured - mainly because they stop to say witty one-liners and argue about how to pronounce meme. (For the record, I also pronounce it wrong. I say "maim' and I don't even care.)

What Ed and Harry DO manage to do is distract the bad guys long enough for Sam and Dean to get out of their restraints and then attack the bad guys themselves - thus saving both themselves and the Ghostfacers.

Dean very slowly stabs the busboy... I mean, it's really rather an intimate killing and, I'm not going to lie, kind of really turned me on.

Meanwhile, the cop guy somehow gets the upperhand against Sam and goes to shoot him, only for Ed to step in front - because he sees this whole mess as his fault. (Ed, it is not your fault that these two people are psychotic killers - if it hadn't been your myth, it would have been someone else's.) Cop guy, being already very much a killer, doesn't see a problem with killing both Ed and Sam... which is when Harry shoots him, thus saving Ed's life.

And I do love the way they do this, because Sam and Dean have become so USED to killing people (again, note the very slow stabbing of busboy), but you an tell that was the first time that Harry ever killed anything... and oh man... the weight of that. And Dean knows it too, despite his desensitization to it himself.

Then we get another conversation outside... Dean's set up the crime scene to erase their presence, but leave enough evidence so that the investigating cops know that the two dead dudes killed the girl and the diner manager. I actually forget what Dean and Sam talk about here, but Ed and Harry have a conversation extremely similar to Sam and Dean's previous conversation. Harry can't trust Ed. Their relationship is now in the "it's complicated" category on facebook. We also find out, either in this conversation or the previous one, that Harry was already planning that Thinman would be his last hunt with Ed... and yeah, now their friendship is in tatters etc....

And then Harry asks the Winchester's for a ride.... and when they ask him if he's okay, he tells them about how you picture growing old with someone, and having them on the rocking chair next to you at the end, and then suddenly having that other rocking chair taken away is super super heartbreaking.....

And of course, that applies to BOTH Sam and Dean... because that's exactly why Dean couldn't let Sam die, and that's exactly how Sam is feeling after Dean betrayed Sam's autonomy. So, yeah, anvils, but probably needed ones when it comes to the brothers seeing other people going through what they're going through and maybe getting some perspective?

The thing that DOES annoy me about this episode is the fact that it leaves the Ghostfacers on the outs. I love those guys, and it's not like we're going to get another episode with them where they make up - whereas we WILL eventually get an episode where Sam and Dean make up. So, now, forever, Ed and Harry are just going to be on the outs.

But, I guess that's why we have headcanons - and personally, I don't think Ed and Harry will be able to stay away from each other forever. I mean, they're best friends! Me and my bestfriend have already decided that unless the other one kills our entire family, we'll basically forgive everything...and even then, our reaction would probably be to try to figure out if there was a good reason for killing our entire family. Of course, this doesn't mean that we never fight or are never on the outs a bit with each other, but when push comes to shove, even when we're on the outs, we're still BFFs. So, Harry will go back home and maybe try to get his girl back - and eventually he'll want to tell Ed something and he'll get back in touch, and Ed will be groveling for a bit, but then it'll just be like it always was... maybe with ghostfacing, maybe without.

Anywho... that's it. That's the episode. I just typed for an hour and a half. Geez..., I hope this isn't too ridiculously long.

Next episode isn't until the 18th, right?

As usual, let me know in comments what I missed or what you desperately need to talk about! :)

Date: 2014-03-05 07:32 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ramblin-rosie.livejournal.com
Ed and Harry really are the bad fanfic versions of Sam and Dean, aren't they? Or maybe the Scooby-Doo versions--down to the parallel versions of Metatron (the visionary) and Gadreel (the killer) being no more than psychotic humans rather than psychotic angels.* Either way, the Ghostfacers version was shallower and less complicated, but still, 'ware falling anvils indeed... yet this probably was the only way to give the boys outsider POV on their own situation that they'll actually ponder.
Note of hope, however, aside from the broment: Dean telling Ed that he needed to come clean to Harry now. I don't remember if we got Sam's reaction to that as we did Dean's to Sam's declaration about secrets destroying relationships, but here's hoping Sam realizes that Dean does at least regret keeping the possession a secret, whether we get an actual apology or not.

*Still with you on wanting Gadreel to be redeemed, however.

Date: 2014-03-05 07:46 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hells-half-acre.livejournal.com
-down to the parallel versions of Metatron (the visionary) and Gadreel (the killer) being no more than psychotic humans rather than psychotic angels.*

Oh man! There's always SOMETHING that I neglect to talk about in this post - and I think you just found it. :P

Note of hope, however, aside from the broment: Dean telling Ed that he needed to come clean to Harry now. I don't remember if we got Sam's reaction to that as we did Dean's to Sam's declaration about secrets destroying relationships, but here's hoping Sam realizes that Dean does at least regret keeping the possession a secret, whether we get an actual apology or not.

Agreed agreed. That's the one bit I actually feel REALLY bad for Dean about - because Dean didn't want to keep it secret at all, it was Gadreel that convinced him too (though, Gadreel's reasoning was sound, given Sam's hatred of being possessed.) I mean, once he was in there, Gadreel was basically Sam hostage and preventing Dean from telling Sam... so, although Sam's well within his rights to blame Dean for the dubcon possession - I don't think the secret-keeping afterward is Dean's fault. Though, maybe I'm just forgiving too easily.

*Still with you on wanting Gadreel to be redeemed, however.

Yay! ;)

Date: 2014-03-05 04:41 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] thursdaysisters.livejournal.com
Yes to this

I'm going to cover my ears and substitute last night's Ghostfacers with Ben Edlund's Scooby Doo parody.

Date: 2014-03-05 10:55 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hells-half-acre.livejournal.com

Oh dear... :P

Date: 2014-03-05 08:01 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] borgmama1of5.livejournal.com
The moment that caught my attention was after Harry shoots the deputy and is standing there staring with the pointed gun, Dean gently puts his hand on the gun and lowers it. Something about that gesture made me think Dean understood that this was a traumatic life-changing moment for Harry to have now killed a person.

What I couldn't tell was whether the Thinman dude was stabbed by Dean or whether he stabbed himself and Dean was trying to stop him.

I'll forgive the anvilness of this ep if it does make the boys see the outside POV of their situation and get them to start trying to talk again.

Date: 2014-03-05 08:14 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hells-half-acre.livejournal.com
Something about that gesture made me think Dean understood that this was a traumatic life-changing moment for Harry to have now killed a person.

Yes, exactly! I loved that. I loved that even though Dean's killed a ton of people at this point in his life, he still knows what it means... he still knows that it's horrible and traumatic, and that Harry will forever be a little different than he once was now.

What I couldn't tell was whether the Thinman dude was stabbed by Dean or whether he stabbed himself and Dean was trying to stop him.

Oh, interesting! I'll have to watch again more closely.

I'll forgive the anvilness of this ep if it does make the boys see the outside POV of their situation and get them to start trying to talk again.


Date: 2014-03-05 11:03 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] supernutjapan.livejournal.com
I did enjoy the episode as a whole. The interaction between Sam and Dean and the Ghostfacers was cute, Sam and Dean's good memories from childhood also awesome. I loved Sam's "NOOOO!" when Dean was about to get killed.

However, I very much resent the writers equating Ed's secret keeping to Dean's, and Sam reacting like that. As you said, Dean tried to tell Sam but he was prevented by Gadreel. This is not the issue that Sam should be upset about.

Did they have to hammer in the issue with that almost equal conversation too? Either they think we are extremely stupid or the boys are. So what are they trying to say... that Dean doing what he did to save Sam's life (without asking permission) was the same as Ed creating a fake hunt to keep the ghostfacers together? I can't see how it would put things in perspective for Sam - only justify his anger. Anyway, too many anvils for me.

Date: 2014-03-05 10:52 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hells-half-acre.livejournal.com
Yeah, there were some gems in the episode, and I always enjoy the Ghostfacers, but it was pretty heavy-handed. And you're right, that Dean violating Sam's body autonomy knowing full well that Sam would rather die is NOT the equivalent of inventing a monster.

But, we'll focus on the good stuff! Like adorable weechester story, the fact that heavy-handed as it may have been, this is a step to the Winchester's reconciling... something I'm sure we all look forward to. :)

Date: 2014-03-05 11:12 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] supernutjapan.livejournal.com
Yes, you're right. I can't help but have a bad feeling about where the writers are going with this, but I'm going to try to think about the good stuff as much as possible :P

Definitely some great scenes.

Date: 2014-03-06 10:48 am (UTC)
ext_153751: (Default)
From: [identity profile] gryphenn.livejournal.com
Gotta agree with the great moments in this ep. LOVED the paaaaussseeee when Dean tells the story and looks so worried until Sam finally echoes "good times."

And just how sad is Ed's life that he would go to those lengths to keep his buddy with him? Anvils, indeed!
Edited Date: 2014-03-06 10:52 am (UTC)

Date: 2014-03-06 11:13 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hells-half-acre.livejournal.com
Yeah, you can't help feel for Ed, because you know that he has nothing at that moment... he ONLY has the Ghostfacers/Harry. And you have to wonder why - which I guess is why my headcanon or him is so depressing.

I mean, we KNOW why Dean can't live without Sam, but with Ed we kind of have to fill in the gaps.

But yes, anvils everywhere and some great moments. :)

Date: 2014-03-09 03:04 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] percysowner.livejournal.com
So I just skimmed the transcript for Hell House and although Sam and Dean don't directly tell Ed and Harry about the Tulpa, Ed and Harry are in there when Sam and Dean try to take Mordeci down with bullets, after they get Ed and Harry to believe that will work and had posted it on the website. When the guns don't work, Dean talks to Ed and Harry about didn't they post the BS story they gave. The said they do, but then their server crashed, so Dean said it didn't take.

Ed and Harry aren't totally stupid and once they found out that Sam faked the producer interview and Dean left a fish in their trunk, they could have looked into what they were talking about when they said the weapons wouldn't work because the story didn't circulate. At least that's my head canon. I actually thought that it was part of the reason why Ed said the lore on Thinman changed like every day, so that he wouldn't set up another Tulpa situation.

I don't know how I feel about Gadreel being redeemed. The seemingly naive angel imprisoned for an admittedly big mistake who wants to be regarded as good, I would like to see redeemed. The angel who killed his best and possibly only friend in order to get that regard, I'm less sure about. I care about Kevin, but I can understand why Gadreel didn't. OTOH, killing your best friend in order to advance is a whole different kettle of fish. Plus, I honestly don't know if Gadreel is a dupe being led around by his nose, or if he is a master manipulator who is playing Metatron for his own ends.

Date: 2014-03-09 04:08 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hells-half-acre.livejournal.com
That's a good headcanon re: the Tulpa. I think I'll just believe that too - because you're right, Ed and Harry aren't stupid, they're just foolish. But obviously, they know how to do research when they need to, and they have a heightened sense of curiosity.

I guess I should say that when I want Gadreel to be redeemed, I want him to be a dupe and be redeemed. If he is, indeed, a master manipulator, than no - no redemption.

You're right though, some people can't forgive him for Kevin's death, but the bigger more meaningful death was obviously Abner - who was anything from Gadreel's bestfriend to his former lover... so, yeah, that's kind of a big deal.

The thing is, Gadreel IS trying to play Metatron for his own ends - he said so himself - Gadreel believes that he's going to be the one to bring the angels back to heaven, that he'll accomplish this by getting close to Metatron, and then he'll be regarded as a hero instead of a screw up. But, can he actually do it? I don't know. Basically, what I'm saying, is that I guess I see Gadreel as a dupe manipulator, someone who, like Cas, always means well but goes about things in exactly the wrong way.

But yeah, you do have a point that the bigger murder to recover from would be Abner's, and I'm not sure that's possible - as much as I'd love to have another good angel besides Castiel, they may have put Gadreel too squarely on the "evil" side of the map for him to return.

Date: 2014-03-09 04:26 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] percysowner.livejournal.com
I do have to admit, that although I see Abner's murder as a big deal, I suspect that most fans would be "who's Abner" by the end of the season. I mean when was the last time Cas felt bad about killing Balthazar, an angel that stood up for him when he was sent to Angel Camp and who was a trusted second in command when Cas was trying to open Purgatory. In fact, has Balthazar ever even been mentioned again?

Fandom is funny. Cas killed Balthazar, half his family, thousands if not tens of thousands of people and then fans say but he took on Sam's insanity, so he made up for his mistakes. I mean I'm having trouble with why any angel would follow Castiel, his record isn't good. I always figured if I were an angel and I found Cas I would duck into the shadows and quickly run the other direction, you know just in case.

Date: 2014-03-09 05:50 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hells-half-acre.livejournal.com
Haha, agreed agreed. This also points out that I'm not insane for wanting Gadreel to be redeemed. If Cas can be redeemed, I don't understand why Gadreel can't. They're mistakes aren't that different and at least Gadreel can blame it on being duped by someone else - Castiel's decisions were largely his own. I mean, yes, he was partially seduced by Crowley, but Crowley's a DEMON.

But yeah, fandom is funny. The people I've talked to/read, seem to be of the opinion that because Gadreel killed Kevin, he can't be redeemed... but, Castiel effectively killed Sam by removing the wall. And yes, he told Dean he'd put it back up again, but then he went insane and didn't, and who knows if he even could have if he HADN'T gone insane.

It's just weird, what the fandom seems to forgive and what it doesn't. Castiel tends to get a free pass no matter what.


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