hells_half_acre: (Sam's a badass)
[personal profile] hells_half_acre
Preamble? Uh... on the way home I left my $30 umbrella at the grocery store and someone stole it. :( So, don't be mean to me, because I am down $30 and doomed to get wet while trying to replace it. ALSO, I write these episodes up after only seeing the episode once, hour(s) ago, while drinking...so quotes are not going to be exact and events may be out of order, and I am already aware of these things.

To the episode...

I think they should have put the events in the THEN in a different order. It was weird to have Kevin die and then see him in the stuff about Garth. They should have had the stuff about Garth first and then show Kevin dying. Also, I really wish they'd stop showing dead Kevin, it makes me sad! Also, I find the burned out eyes really disturbing.

ANYWAY... where do we start? Oh yeah, with Garth running through the woods getting shot at and then getting hit by a car. Ouch.

And then it's Sam come to investigate, having picked up the John Doe report over the police wire and recognizing Garth. But, he's not the only Winchester to have done so... and yeah, when I knew Garth was going to be in this episode, I realized that that would be what would bring the Winchesters back together - concern over a friend.

And things are awkward. Dean tries to get Sam to go and let him deal with it, but Sam's not about to do that. Dean also plans to wake Garth up with a shot of adrenaline but Sam just whacks him in the face, which works just as well. Then it's throw-up city for Garth... and as soon as he took off into the bathroom, I knew he was going to sneak out the window...mind you, that's mostly just because I had seen the preview and new the basic premise of the episode.

But before Garth makes his escape, Dean and Sam have a little awkward "what have you been up to?" conversation. Dean finds out about Gadreel's leftover grace and that "Cas took care of it" and then Dean says he feels like he's in an episode of "Teen Mom" and both me and my friend responded with, "I don't know what that means"...because we have no idea what that means.

Sam sees the Mark of Cain on Dean and is justifiably concerned... seriously, you can't leave that guy alone for a minute, can you Sam? Mind you, he can't leave you alone either, because apparently you suddenly have a death wish...but we'll get to that!

Garth escapes out the window and Dean and Sam go back to instincts and start working the case together without really even thinking about it - Dean sends Sam to find out about the cattle deaths and Dean goes to find the security camera footage of the hospital.

Also, there is a huge Northwest Native art piece in the lobby of that hospital..., but I guess they're in Oregon, right? No, wait, they're in Wisconsin, aren't they? So.. maybe after 9 years, the Supernatural crew is just goddamn sick of covering up all the native art around here and have given up. :P

Once Dean gets the footage, he phones Sam and tries to get him to leave again - but Sam is having none of it and is actually already at the hospital and looks at the footage and tells Dean to stop lying to him...and yeah, we're off to a fine start.

And I really want to timeline this episode - because there's print-outs and there's the fact that Garth has been MIA for 6 months. When was the last time we heard from Garth? I'm going to have to look that up, because it wasn't just his last appearance - it was the last time they actually spoke to him or Kevin says he saw him...and I have no idea when that was.

Anyway, they track Garth down to an apartment and are jumped by a werewolf... and we get the truth out of Garth....who is now a werewolf. And Supernatural slowly changes their werewolf mythology even more... it's actually becoming more and more in line with Teen Wolf mythology, except for the hierarchy/eye-colour-thing. But we now have born-wolves and bitten-wolves, just like Teen Wolf. Now, part of me is like "Ugh, keep your mythologies consistent!!" but another part of me is like, "The more in line with Teen Wolf SPN mythology becomes, the easier it would be to write a crossover!" and then still another part of me is like "Stop writing goddamn crossovers! You have a problem!" So, yeah, I'm conflicted about it. I REALLY love the idea of born wolves, and it's one of the reasons I started watching Teen Wolf...but at the same time, if they have bitten wolves that can control it, it kind of takes away from Madison's tragic death all those seasons ago... now, mind you, the way SPN mythology seems to work is that if you are bitten by a born-wolf of a certain bloodline, you can control the shift...so, yeah, like I said - conflicted.

But I digress...

Garth is married to the born wolf and he insists that the pack he's with is not dangerous to people - only livestock. He asks Dean and Sam to come "pray" with them to prove it.

Oh, before I move onto the next scene - I LOVE the way Garth introduced Sam and Dean. "Dean could start a fight in an empty house, but deep down he's just a big teddy bear." (So true...especially starting the fight in the empty house.). "Sam can be insecure sometimes, but he has good reasons."

Just Dean goes to check out the "prayer group" thingy, because apparently this episode was filmed when Genevieve was having Shepherd, so Jared wasn't around that much (I read the tweets from tonight before I typed this up.)

Dean is super werewolf-racist, but hey, it's Dean, what do you expect! Also, does "Bringing in the Sheaves" not have more words than that? Because my god...that's a dull hymn. They should have been singing Lord of the Dance, that one is much more fun.

They eat lunch, which is super gross because all the wolves are eating raw organs. That's one thing from Supernatural mythology that is still different than Teen Wolf mythology...so, yeah, NO CROSSOVERS! RAR! (Seriously, I don't know what the hell the plot would be anyway, so it's not going to happen.)

The Reverend... Jim, explains how they don't kill people and they live in harmony and whatnot... and they all wear silver bullets around their necks to remember how they're fragile and such... and it's all very...well, too creepy organized religion to me. Sorry organized religion folks, but yeah, it really creeps me out. So, I was kind of with Dean on this one - it was too creepy to be genuine.

That being said, when Garth talked to Dean and told him how happy he was there and how he had found a family and whatnot, I really WANTED it to be genuine for Garth... because I like Garth and the thing I like about him is that he's not fucked up like the Winchesters are, he's optimistic and sees the good in people, etc. So, yeah, I didn't want that taken away from him.

Of course, in the course of the conversation, Dean has to tell Garth that Kevin is dead. :( That sucks.... I mean, one it sucks that Kevin is dead, but I also feel bad for Dean because it really sucks when you're the one who has to tell people that someone is dead. I've only had to do it once, but it was HORRIBLE, and I would like never to have to do it again.

One thing that was funny here though while we were watching...was that as soon as Dean said, "Kevin is gone", my friend's cat meowed the most pitiful meow in the silence that followed. It was hilarious, because it really sounded like she was responding to the show just with her timing.

So, Garth learns that Kevin is dead. Dean has to tell him that Kevin is dead...and everyone is super sad.

Sam, meanwhile, is getting the skinny from the local sheriff about whether the werewolves really are law-abiding citizens. They are.

And then it's just a matter of Sam and Dean sitting on the Impala that evening trying to figure out if they should stay and investigate more, kill everyone, or leave. Then Sam gets a call from the sheriff.

There's a dead dear that has been torn apart by something! Oh noes... it's weird that the Sheriff says that nothing around there could kill a dear like that. I mean, Wisconsin is pretty close to Canada, and there are coyotes in Canada...and bears... also, the Winchesters don't care if werewolves are killing wildlife or livestock.

Anyway, none of that matters because Dean notices that the body is still warm, which means it was killed AFTER the Winchesters were called...and sure enough, the Sheriff is actually a werewolf and trying to kill them - but he is a SLOW werewolf and gets a knife thrown into his chest instead. Yay! I love knife throwing, I really do.

Then they notice that the sheriff has "Ragnarök" carved into his silver bullet. Woo! Norse mythology. I love Ragnorak. It is my favourite apocalypse of the gods. In German it's called Götterdammerung, which literally translates to "Twilight of the Gods." And I mean, does it get more awesome than that? There's such poetry in that name.

So, then it's split-up time again, with Sam going to find Garth and Dean going to...oh! the church! Also, Dean tells Sam to clean up the Sheriff's body. Man, that's gotta suck as a job. "Sam, just take five minutes and cover up this massive crime we just committed would you? It involves hiding a body and disposing of a cop car." "Yeah sure, no problem, i do this three times per week."

So, Sam goes to Garth's place and finds evidence of a struggle but no Garth or Beth. (Betty? Bess? Let's go with Beth). Dean, meanwhile, goes to the church...which is the same church they used in 99 Problems back in S5, I believe. And he finds a book about Ragnarok and what it means to these guys. Apparently they're alternative name was Maw of Fenris (super cool) and they wanted to kill all the humans and rule the world. Dude, you're going to need a LOT more werewolves for that plan.

Also, why don't they take up farming? I mean... wouldn't it make way more sense to farm your own cattle organs rather than killing your neighbour's cattle? Learn sustainable practices, guys!! Geez.

ANNNNNnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnyway.... Sam gets abducted, and then the Reverend comes into the church and sniffs out Dean, and also hears his heartbeat. (Again, VERY Teen Wolf scene, here...except for without the pretty pretty "teens"). Dean confronts the Reverend only to discover that he genuinely seems to have absolutely no idea what half of his congregation is doing.

Also, I like the fact that the Reverend tells us that Dean still gets scared after all these years... that's a cool bit of character info. It's kind of...understandable and also a little heartbreaking? I don't even know.

Back to Sam....who is being dragged into a barn where Garth and Beth are chained up. The Reverend's wife is the one behind the whole cult thing - and she's staging a murder, to get her husband on board with the plan? Or just to get the hunters out of the way? Or something...I don't know, she sends her henchment out of the room and does the standard bad-guy monologue explaining her whole plan. She obviously doesn't watch enough movies, because this gives Dean plenty of time to kill her henchmen, wear their coat to cover his scent, and then sneak up on her. He DOES get jumped by a werewolf, but Dean is super quick with the knife to the heart - so no worries. Then the Reverend's wife pulls a gun on Dean, but newsflash, Dean has a lot more practice with guns that she does, so it's pretty easier for him to be way quicker on the draw.

Before all that went down though, when she was beating on Beth and Garth was yelling at her...I should say that I really like the way Garth DID try to get her attention away from Beth and Sam, like a hero, and I liked him wolfing out in anger...that was really neat. That being said, it would have been nice if Garth had of a bit more active roll in his rescue... one of the reasons I like Garth is that he's a weird bad-ass in his own way, and we didn't really see that in this episode as much. But hey, I guess I can't have everything.

Then it's just the aftermath...with Sam getting his Garth hug, and then Garth and Dean having a conversation... Garth offers to come hunt with Dean, to try to make up for going AWOL and possibly contributing to getting Kevin killed. Dean won't let him take that blame though, because Dean sees it as all his own fault. He tells Garth to hold on to the family he's got and stay with them instead - because it's hard to find. Then he actually ASKS for his hug! Awwww....

So, does this mean that the hunting community is without an organizational "Bobby" figure? No researcher to call? No one to vouch for their false identities?! No one to co-ordinate hunts with GPS tracking? Oh man... someone should resurrect Kevin and just make him "Kevin freakin' Solo" and give him that job. Or Jody...or someone.

Also, if Garth is out of the hunting gig and a werewolf now? Does this mean we won't see him again? Is this like Charlie, in that it's SORT of a soft goodbye to the character?! I guess only time will tell.

Okay, now the end scene. Sam goes to get back into his car, but Dean stops him. I'm not going to lie, but before this episode aired, I kind of wanted Sam to reach out to Dean about coming back...but then Sam basically states that the way he sees it, it was Dean's choice to leave - and so it actually makes sense that Sam WOULDN'T reach out, because he's trying to prove a point by honouring Dean's choices.

Then Dean makes a speech about how he doesn't know what the rules are anymore and I....gotta be honest and say that I actually don't really understand what Dean was trying to say here. I guess I have to watch the episode again and try to parse it out. Sam responds that he can't trust Dean, because he doesn't know what page Dean in on anymore (or something?) because Dean keeps talking Sam out of dying? Sam seems to be upset that Dean is placing Sam's life on a higher priority than shutting the gates of hell forever...but, um, I thought this was something that Sam AGREED with Dean on back in S1, when Sam decided that Dean was right and that killing the YED wasn't more important than family. That being said, when Sam points out that Dean keeps using "family" like it's a good thing, but that it seems to also be the reason that they do everything wrong in their lives... and yeah, I mean, the whole apocalypse basically happened because Den was unwilling to let Sam die...or John was unwilling to let Dean die... I mean, technically, the angels were hellbent on it (ha!) so it probably would have happened somehow anyway...but still, Sam has a point that they might have to set some limits on what they're "family" excuse can justify.

Anyway, basically, Sam finishes this confusing conversation by basically saying that they can keep working together in a professional capacity, but that Sam's not big on being family right now. Dean is naturally devastated by hearing that a)he can't be trusted, and b)he is currently not considered Sam's family.... and part of me can't help but think of 5x01, where Dean told Sam that he couldn't be trusted. So, now I guess it's Dean's turn.

But really, Dean can't be trusted because he won't let Sam kill himself for the greater good? It's kind of weak, because wanting to kill yourself, even for the greater good, isn't really the healthiest attitude to have - which I THOUGHT was what Cas pointed out to Sam last episode, and again, what Sam agreed with in S1 (though, I admit that was a long time ago and opinions can change.) I DO understand Sam not trusting Dean because Dean DID make a huge decision on behalf of Sam and lost Sam his body autonomy...so, yeah, I don't blame Sam for not trusting Dean for THAT reason... but the reason of "you're always sweet talking me into not killing myself" is a little...um...weird.

Anyway... next week looks AWESOME for purely aesthetic reasons and I don't even care how shallow that makes me.

As usual, let me know in comments what you thought! If you think you can explain the parts that confused me, let me know!

PS:
The alternative lyric from the same song for the cut text was:
"We lay down seething, smell our pillows burn
And drift off to the place where you'd think we'd learn"

It was a hard decision between the two options. I really like the Hip. Gord Downie is a good poet, IMHO.

Date: 2014-01-29 09:23 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] raloria.livejournal.com
and then Dean says he feels like he's in an episode of "Teen Mom" and both me and my friend responded with, "I don't know what that means"...because we have no idea what that means.

Thank goodness I wasn't the only one! WTH was that reference???

Ha! You caught that Native art piece as well. Like THAT fits right in for a Wisconsin hospital. LOL!

So, then it's split-up time again, with Sam going to find Garth and Dean going to...oh! the church! Also, Dean tells Sam to clean up the Sheriff's body. Man, that's gotta suck as a job. "Sam, just take five minutes and cover up this massive crime we just committed would you? It involves hiding a body and disposing of a cop car." "Yeah sure, no problem, i do this three times per week."

LOL I know right? Poor Sam always gets stuck with the clean-up jobs. But the thing that got me in this case....he does it! No arguments, no questions asked. He just does what Dean tells him to without question...which kind of makes his argument at the end a little weak, but whatever.

So, does this mean that the hunting community is without an organizational "Bobby" figure? No researcher to call? No one to vouch for their false identities?! No one to co-ordinate hunts with GPS tracking? Oh man... someone should resurrect Kevin and just make him "Kevin freakin' Solo" and give him that job. Or Jody...or someone.

Aw, man! I didn't even think of that! We need Kevin baaaaaaccccckkkk!!!!!! *sigh* Guess everyone's on their own again. Unless another unknown to us hunter takes up the job.

But really, Dean can't be trusted because he won't let Sam kill himself for the greater good? It's kind of weak, because wanting to kill yourself, even for the greater good, isn't really the healthiest attitude to have - which I THOUGHT was what Cas pointed out to Sam last episode,

Yes! This! I mean...WTH Sam??? And considering, dude...you said yes! You thought you were saying yes to your brother and it wasn't, but you still said yes! You said yes! in the church!!!! Gah! And yeah...I thought he'd figured this all out thanks to Cas. Guess not. :(

Date: 2014-01-29 09:35 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hells-half-acre.livejournal.com
Thank goodness I wasn't the only one! WTH was that reference???

I'm glad we weren't the only ones who didn't get it!

Ha! You caught that Native art piece as well. Like THAT fits right in for a Wisconsin hospital. LOL!

It's SO west-coast... and they just placed that little dinky plant in front of it like, "no one can see this HUGE mural now." :P

But the thing that got me in this case....he does it! No arguments, no questions asked. He just does what Dean tells him to without question...which kind of makes his argument at the end a little weak, but whatever.

Well, to me it speaks more to the fact that they still work really well together in a professional capacity, which I think is why Sam's willing to work with Dean again at the end of the episode... but they're not working in a life-goals/healthy-relationship capacity, which is why Sam doesn't think they can be brothers right now.

I don't know though - I'm still super confused about this current conflict, not gonna lie.

Aw, man! I didn't even think of that! We need Kevin baaaaaaccccckkkk!!!!!!

I know! I'm usually in the "what's dead should stay dead" camp - but goddamn it, I want Kevin back. I know they probably don't have the money to make Osric a regular, but I'd seriously don't even care if he's a part of the plot. I just want him hanging out in the bunker helping with research, eating sandwiches, and watching Sam and Dean argue.

Yes! This! I mean...WTH Sam??? And considering, dude...you said yes! You thought you were saying yes to your brother and it wasn't, but you still said yes! You said yes! in the church!!!! Gah! And yeah...I thought he'd figured this all out thanks to Cas. Guess not. :(

Exactly! I'm super confused... does Sam want to live or not? I mean, I get being mad about the angel-possession trick. Maybe given the choice, Sam would have preferred to die... but still, in the church he agreed! And, ugh, I don't get it.

I really try just to enjoy the show and not be super negative...but right now this brother conflict seems a little bit manufactured just because it's contradictory and hard to suss out the motivations behind it. But, maybe eventually it will be understandable?! I suppose I can hope.

Date: 2014-01-29 09:47 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] raloria.livejournal.com
Couldn't they have Kevin come back as a ghost and just hang out in the bunker, helping with research and whatnot? Surely there's some hair of his in there! They've brought back other people with so little! We need one of these plot-holes to work for us, dammit! lol

Date: 2014-01-29 10:29 am (UTC)
liliaeth: (Default)
From: [personal profile] liliaeth
It's weird,but I keep having this plotbunny where God brought back Gabriel (and Samandriel, and Inias and...)
And then Gabriel takes Kevin (who of course isn't dead (anymore)) to Rome where he's to live under the protection of pope Francis.

And the pope's all... freaked out, but goes along with it and learns some valuable life lessons about the things he's wrong on.
And then Kevin, and his bodyguard Samandriel quietly translate the angel tablet and help all the angels get back home...

You can imagine why I'm not actually writing this story, right?

Date: 2014-01-29 11:06 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] etoile444.livejournal.com
I'm confused too. In the church Sam realizes he shouldn't die, thats his consent that he wants to live before he goes into the coma. He shouldn't be mad about living. Its the vessel that tricked everyone. Sam can be mad about that.

None of the writers have thought this through have they? Sometimes its all one write as you go along fanfic. Ugh.

Didnt Dean let go of Sam before the end of season five? Why so codependent now?

See, I am confused.

Date: 2014-01-29 09:21 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hells-half-acre.livejournal.com
[livejournal.com profile] percysowner explains it really well in a comment below!

It's not about Sam dying, it's about Dean making decisions for him (and that includes manipulating Sam into making a decision without enough information) - Sam sees that as a sign of lack of trust/respect, which sort of negates what Dean said in the church about trusting Sam.

And Sam can't trust Dean, because Dean KNEW that Sam would rather die then be possessed, so he tricked him into it.

I think we shouldn't be too hard on Dean for still being codependent..YES he was able to let go enough to have Sam jump into the pit in S5 - but if you think about it, Dean actually didn't take that too well. He said "no" when Sam said "yes" - and then when Sam was dead, he DID go into research mode and depressed-drinking mode trying to find a way to get him back, even though he promised he wouldn't.

So, yeah, it DOES kind of make sense?

ANYWAY... as much as I love the realistic dialogue (because people are never eloquent or finish their sentences when they're trying to communicate complex emotions)...I kind of wish the writers would be a little more explicit, because this IS a kind of complicated and confusing conflict. Perhaps just because there are so many players and layers to it.

Date: 2014-01-29 10:25 am (UTC)
liliaeth: (Default)
From: [personal profile] liliaeth
Maybe I'm just not angry enough with Dean, but really I don't see the big deal. Yes, it was wrong to trick Sam into consenting to Gadreel, but you know what, it wasn't really a lie.

Sam said yes, when Gadreel as Dean reminded him of his promise to live. As far as Dean knew, letting Gadrel in was the only way to keep Sam alive. Dean in Sam's head said there was a way to save Sam, he didn't say what that way was, but he did give the end purpose.

And Dean did want to tell Sam right away, but Gadreel basically held Sam's life hostage to keep him from doing so.

I also have issues with the idea that stopping someone who's suicidal from dying is somehow a bad thing.

It's one thing if someone is in utter and complete pain, but really, just because someone is depressed, doesn't mean you should let them die.

As far as the Teen Wolf crossover is concerned, I'm all for it, as long as Scott has a major role in it.

My biggest issue with the majority if not all of the existing TW crossovers is that they're all Stiles centric. And since I don't give a flying fuck about Stiles and think he's the most boring character on the show, that makes most TW crossovers not worth reading to me.

I just wish there were more Scott centric TW crossovers, esp. in regards to SPN/TW crossovers.
Dean and Scott just have so much in common that I just really want to see something about the two of them meeting up.

Date: 2014-01-29 10:49 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hells-half-acre.livejournal.com
I also have issues with the idea that stopping someone who's suicidal from dying is somehow a bad thing.

Yes, I think this is my sticking point too. I mean, I'm all for assisted-suicide in the case of terminal illness/extreme pain - but depression/fucked-up-psychology does not fall into that category.

As far as the Teen Wolf crossover is concerned, I'm all for it, as long as Scott has a major role in it.

I've got no plans to write one, and I DO happen to really like Stiles... but I also agree with you about how annoying the severe lack of Scott is in most crossover fanfic (and TW fanfic in general). If I DID write TW crossover fanfic, I'd make Scott a major role because a)I like to write canon-stories, so there'd be none of this AU Sterek business, b)Scott is the main character on Teen Wolf, and finally c)Scott is the current Alpha, it'd be IMPOSSIBLE to not have him around, if I were to set the story in the most recent timeline, anyway.

But yeah, like I said, no plans and no plot.

Date: 2014-01-29 11:01 am (UTC)
liliaeth: (Default)
From: [personal profile] liliaeth
I've got an idea in my head of writing a crossover where Dean turns out to be Scott's real father. (which is a plot I normally don't go for, but somehow it works in my head where Scott and Dean are concerned)

Or at the least something where Melissa and Dean have a previous relationship. It would also have the added benefit of clearly setting the Winchesters in the rank of adults

Date: 2014-01-29 09:24 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hells-half-acre.livejournal.com
I think I may have seen that Dean=Scott's father plot before...unless I'm crazy...or maybe it was a Dean=Stiles' father and I rolled my eyes. :P

But yeah, that would be pretty cool, because Dean would have a werewolf son.

Date: 2014-01-29 09:30 pm (UTC)
liliaeth: (Default)
From: [personal profile] liliaeth
It was probably the Stiles as Dean's son fic, that I might have tried to read a while back. Just... ugh... it's like, if you take the guy who's special thing is that he's the regular guy of the group, then why do they keep getting the urge to make him 'special'.

But the whole Dean having a werewolf for a son thing is what would interest me.

Honestly, this week's ep is giving me ideas of Sam and Dean investigating other members of that Maw of Fenis cult and ending up in Beacon Hills because of it.

Just need to figure some things out...

I could see Peter as a member of the cult, with Derek's mom being against it. Deucalion could be a member as well, might even say that the whole Alpha Pack thing was connected to it in some way or another...mmm

And if they could get Dean to kill Scott, his own son, despite Scott being a true Alpha, which you'd think that werewolves would see as something special...

It could work, right?

Date: 2014-01-29 10:01 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hells-half-acre.livejournal.com
it's like, if you take the guy who's special thing is that he's the regular guy of the group, then why do they keep getting the urge to make him 'special'.

YES! Oh man, this drives me NUTS in Teen Wolf fic... because all the actors and the showrunner agree that Stiles needs to stay human in order for the show and Stiles' character to work! And yet people insist on making him super special every chance they get.

(I'm reserving judgement on current show-storylines until I see where they're going, btw.)

Anyway, that rant out of the way... I think you've got a pretty good basis for a plot there. It would make sense that the whole Alpha Pack thing would be tied to a Werewolf-Supremacist cult... and that Peter might be seduced by the concept as well.

Maybe instead of trying to kill Scott, they could be trying to win him over by having Scott hate humans...so they think the way to do that is to have Dean ATTEMPT to kill him...or his pack? And then Scott starts hating humans and the Maw of Fenris get a true alpha in their ranks? Only, of course, Scott would never do that, so instead you get a whole story about how Scott stops the evil plot and such...

Date: 2014-01-29 11:45 am (UTC)
frozen_delight: (dean + sam)
From: [personal profile] frozen_delight
Not really able to offer you any answers, but let me just say that you really managed to nail all the things that confused me. And did so in a most amusing manner.

Sam sees the Mark of Cain on Dean and is justifiably concerned... seriously, you can't leave that guy alone for a minute, can you Sam? Mind you, he can't leave you alone either, because apparently you suddenly have a death wish...
Lauging so hard! They definitely need to have the other one around to keep them from doing all kinds of incredibly stupid stuff.

Also, why don't they take up farming? I mean... wouldn't it make way more sense to farm your own cattle organs rather than killing your neighbour's cattle? Learn sustainable practices, guys!! Geez.
This is the best suggestion ever! You should publish a manual on the subject. :)

She sends her henchment out of the room and does the standard bad-guy monologue explaining her whole plan. She obviously doesn't watch enough movies, because this gives Dean plenty of time to kill her henchmen, wear their coat to cover his scent, and then sneak up on her.
Seriously, this is very funny.

And then there's the ending scene and I'm really not sure either what Dean's trying to say. At the beginning of the episode, he's still all convinced that he's poison and that Sam should stay away from him - and now he wants them to be a family again? What? Obviously, he misses Sam, but why the swift change?

I can understand that Sam's pissed off when Dean uses the magic word "family" again to cover up anything that might have gone wrong. But then he really overdoes it with his reply that all the bad stuff happens to them because they're a family. I wish they would just once keep heaven and hell out of their arguments, then they might make a bit of progress with their issues. But of course they can't.

So instead we get this like you pointed out really weird statement that Sam can't trust Dean because Dean talked him out of dying? To me, it always seemed as though Dean betrayed Sam's trust with the whole Gadreel thing because he did the exact opposite of what he promised Sam back in the church, namely that they'd figure things out together. And I can see Sam blaming Dean for that. And not being able to trust him anymore. But for talking him out of dying?

They're both not really making sense in this conversation.

As ever, thanks so much for typing this all up. You did a splendid job in pointing out why the episode left me feeling so confused.

Date: 2014-01-29 09:33 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hells-half-acre.livejournal.com
At the beginning of the episode, he's still all convinced that he's poison and that Sam should stay away from him - and now he wants them to be a family again? What? Obviously, he misses Sam, but why the swift change?

I think the change is because he realized that Garth found a family and was happy... and it made Dean get all his family-feels back and not want to push Sam away anymore. I think even Dean doesn't know what's going on with his emotions/psyche which is why his speech was so confusing to listen to. He doesn't know what's best and he doesn't know what he should be doing to fix things, but he misses Sam and doesn't want to be alone really.

I wish they would just once keep heaven and hell out of their arguments, then they might make a bit of progress with their issues. But of course they can't.

Yeah, maybe this is what they need to figure out how to do in order to mend their brother-relationship.

To me, it always seemed as though Dean betrayed Sam's trust with the whole Gadreel thing because he did the exact opposite of what he promised Sam back in the church, namely that they'd figure things out together. And I can see Sam blaming Dean for that. And not being able to trust him anymore. But for talking him out of dying?

[livejournal.com profile] percysowner explains this really well in a comment below. But basically, they think that what Sam is saying is that because Dean manipulated Sam into saying yes to Gadreel, Sam doesn't know what speeches of Dean's were sincere and which were emotional-manipulation. So, I think he's not upset about Dean talking him out of dying, he's upset because he doesn't know if Dean ACTUALLY trusts him and wants to figure things out together - or if that was something he just said because he's super codependent and can't live without Sam.

But I agree that the conversation doesn't make much sense, and it's a little frustrating... though, part of me also thinks it's cool and realistic, because who the hell ever successfully articulates their thoughts at the right moment?

I'm glad you liked the review and thought I was hilarious! I'll get right on writing the "Sustainable Legal Werewolfhood Guidebook" ;)

Date: 2014-01-29 02:14 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ramblin-rosie.livejournal.com
Don't have a *whole* lot to add, but yes, "Bringing in the Sheaves" has three verses (http://www.hymnary.org/text/sowing_in_the_morning_sowing_seeds/fulltexts) that they never even attempted to sing. And honestly, as a life-long Christian, I was getting *cult* vibes even from the promos... which turned out to fit with the whole Maw of Fenris thing.
Man, I dunno. I hate what the writers have been doing to the boys this season. It's had its bright spots, but surely there was *some* other way they could have taken this storyline! (Not giving up hope, though--pretty sure this was the ep that filmed right before BurCon, after which the Js called a meeting with the writers.)

Date: 2014-01-29 09:37 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hells-half-acre.livejournal.com
I think it didn't help that they were all wearing the sort of "still living in the 1800s" type of clothes. But I'm glad that even people in organized religions were getting cult-vibes. I always worry that I'm just super-sensitive because I'm so easily creeped out by most religions.

I thought it was the writers who had called the meeting in LA after BurCon and not the Js. Or did Jensen just say that they "had a meeting" after BurCon and fans leapt to different conclusions? In any case, I'm sure we'd all love to be a fly on that wall.

I'm hoping things will sort of make more sense once we see the end-game.

Date: 2014-01-30 03:53 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ramblin-rosie.livejournal.com
Not having been at BurCon, my sources were second-hand at best, and my memory may be faulty. Or, as you say, fandom may have jumped to unwarranted conclusions. But yeah, really hoping the end game makes sense of all this, because right now it's a mess that I keep thinking the boys should never have been in to begin with. :P

Date: 2014-01-29 02:24 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] borgmama1of5.livejournal.com
I'd give the writers credit for making this a reversal of the start of season 5, where Dean couldn't trust Sam anymore...but I suspect that would be giving them too much credit in doing it on purpose...

Sorry, that was awfully snarky.

I actually liked the Sam'n'Dean scenes tonight. Especially Dean telling (most of) the truth about the mark of Cain. I don't want to see a quick and easy return to the way they were because they both (Dean especially) have to do some soul-searching and maturing in how they relate to each other.

Story was a little 'meh'--all good, reformed monsters except of course there are bad eggs hiding among them. (And yes, why don't they raise their own cattle??? Brilliant suggestion!)

Wonder if the mark of Cain could end up being like demon blood was for Sam, and lead Dean down a dark path that Sam will have to rescue him from? I still, after all these years, want to see Sam save Dean!!!

Date: 2014-01-29 09:32 pm (UTC)
liliaeth: (Default)
From: [personal profile] liliaeth
I figured that they do raise their own cattle, but a newly bitten like Garth needs the occasional kill to keep his instincts under control. And it's hard to control himself and stick to only their own cows.

After all, even with one of their own in the sheriff's department, people would start noticing if a whole bunch of werewolves started attacking the neighbor's animals on a regular basis.

Date: 2014-01-29 09:40 pm (UTC)

Date: 2014-01-29 09:39 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hells-half-acre.livejournal.com
I agree 100% with you. I don't really have anything to add. It WOULD really be nice for Sam to successfully do SOMETHING. I mean, technically, the only thing Sam's successfully done is defeat Lucifer, which was pretty huge... but yeah, when Sam's wanted to save Dean in the past, he's never been successful (or sometimes didn't even try because he had a psychotic-break [ie: the writers wrote him OOC])

Date: 2014-01-29 03:33 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] percysowner.livejournal.com
About the Teen Mom thing, I don't watch it, but generally if a guy tells a girl to "take of it" it means get an abortion, which doesn't fit the episode, but I don't like the writer, so I'm not shocked.

The best explanation I have for Sam talking about Dean stopping him from finishing the trials is this. Sam stopped the trials because Dean implied that he trusted Sam and than he loved Sam and begged Sam to make the right choice. Then Dean turned around and knowingly violated Sam's wishes not to live by supernatural mean and not to ever have to host an angel again. Dean's actions said, yeah, still don't trust or respect you even though you did what I asked and made the "right"choice at the church, I'm not going to ever really give you a choice again. Sam let Dean convince Sam to do something Sam didn't think was right (stop the trials) because he loved and trusted Dean (and he wasn't suicidal). Then Dean turns around and proves that he doesn't trust Sam and doesn't love him ENOUGH to let him go when Sam is actually DYING. Sam wasn't committing suicide in the hospital. His organs were completely destroyed. He was accepting the truth that his body was dying and moving on. And I totally agree that Sam had the right to make that decision.

Date: 2014-01-29 04:28 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] caranfindel.livejournal.com
This. It's not about "talking Sam into living." It's about tricking Sam and lying to him and overriding his decisions. I love Dean and I understand why he did it but he needs to acknowledge that it was wrong.

Date: 2014-01-29 05:05 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] citizen-ephiny.livejournal.com
Seconded! It's almost funny now to remember Dean's season 2 philosophy of "What's dead should stay dead", and how ever since AHBL he's completely abandoned that where Sam is concerned. With all the people they've lost, Sam is the only one Dean has ever gone to such lengths to keep alive. I don't think it's so much that he disregards Sam's wishes, it's just that Dean's fear of being alone is so absolute he can't entertain the idea for even a second. I'm not saying he was right, not at all, but I can understand where he's coming from: they've lost just about everyone, literally, and if Dean lost Sam I think it would kill him. He is, simply put, incapable of saying goodbye to his brother.

Having said that, I completely agree with Sam here. Dean does not have the right to decide things like this for Sam. Sam's not depressed, or suicidal. He's just always believed that he'd be done hunting sometime, and he's ready for it no matter how it happens - with his death or with a normal life. I think if Dean were to die, Sam would be crushed, and he'd grieve, but I think he'd do just what he did when Dean went to Purgatory - move on. Dean keeps taking that away from him. And while I love Dean, he's got to learn that's not okay.

ETA - I did think that Sam's comment about not being brothers anymore was below the belt. For the record.
Edited Date: 2014-01-29 07:57 pm (UTC)

Date: 2014-01-29 08:19 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] caranfindel.livejournal.com
I didn't take it as "we're not brothers," but more as "we can't function as brothers right now." Which is true; they're in a pretty dysfunctional place.

Date: 2014-01-30 12:48 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] citizen-ephiny.livejournal.com
That they are :) And after a rewatch of that scene I think you're right about what Sam was really saying. I hope this time he and Dean are actually able to work out some of their issues (at least until the middle of *next* season, which is when these conflicts usually pop up, no?)

Date: 2014-01-30 01:32 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hells-half-acre.livejournal.com
Haha, yup - the middle of next season, the conflict will be that Sam is being too headstrong again and Dean doesn't like the road he's going down. :P

Date: 2014-01-29 08:29 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hells-half-acre.livejournal.com
Yes, this whole fight makes way more sense now. Man, I was so confused, because I couldn't figure out why Sam seemed suicidal - but he's NOT. He's just upset about Dean having psychological problems. :P

I agree with [livejournal.com profile] caranfindel about the "brothers" comment. I don't think it's below the belt. I think it's Sam's way of telling Dean that the thing that's broken in their relationship is the way they treat family, not the way they relate professionally. So, Sam's basically just telling him that they need to work on that, that it's not going to be as easy as "doing job well=everything is fine." Which, upon retrospect, is I think how Dean thought they could fix it by "putting a few W(ins) on the board."

Date: 2014-01-29 08:22 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hells-half-acre.livejournal.com
THANK YOU!

Oh my god... this is actually an explanation that makes perfect sense and makes me understand what's going on with Sam (who I usually understand really well, so I've been very frustrated the last two eps with my confusion.)

But yes, that makes perfect sense - because I couldn't figure out why Sam suddenly seemed upset about not being dead... but it makes far more sense that it's about Dean not respecting Sam's choices, because Sam has ALWAYS seen that as a sign of lack of trust/love, which WOULD negate the church-speech for Sam and make it seem like Dean was just telling him what he wanted to hear for his own purposes.

(Also - yikes to making an off-hand joke about a really sensitive topic with that Teen Mom thing. I mean, I'm pro-choice and everything, but I don't think you should JOKE about it. That crap is traumatic.)

Date: 2014-01-29 04:48 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] katsheswims.livejournal.com
I thought the Teen Mom reference was likening the act of possession to sex/rape again. Dean sort of saying he felt like his kid (Sam) got pregnant while he was away or something (referring to the grace left behind and how Cas "took care of it"). Actually a pretty dark implication for a throw-away line or two...but I could be wrong--that's just my interpretation.

The way this episode dealt with and expanded the spn werewolf myth also reminded me more of Teen Wolf in ways.

I was also a little confused by Sam and Dean's "talk" at the end. As to just what Dean was trying to say (which was partially that he was sorry, but he just couldn't get that word out...), and I was also a bit confused as to Sam bringing up Dean stopping him from completing the Trails and saving his life as a reason to not to trust him when the tricky angel possession I think is the bigger issue.
Edited Date: 2014-01-29 04:51 pm (UTC)

Date: 2014-01-29 09:44 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hells-half-acre.livejournal.com
Actually a pretty dark implication for a throw-away line or two...but I could be wrong--that's just my interpretation.

This seems to be the consensus, and now I understand the line and am a little... disgusted by it... because yeah, I don't think that's something you should joke about.

And yeah, super confused at the talk. I might wait a year and see if I can decipher it in a rewatch. :P

Date: 2014-01-29 05:32 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] supernutjapan.livejournal.com
Darn. got too excited on the key board and erased my comment...

I totally agree that the whole premise of this story was too contrived. (If you want to coexist with humans, raise your own cattle and stop killing other people's life stock aye?!) But then we could say the same thing about that vampire nest in season 2. Maybe we should just believe that vamps and wolves who are smart like us are doing that and it's just the stupid packs/nests that don't.

I totally agree with your assessment of Sam and Dean here. Especially Sam - I felt like shaking him last week but this... arg!

I thought it was interesting though that they had Garth, and then Dean reiterating that speech by Gadreel's friend - remember? finding your own happiness and hanging on?

So although I couldn't believe it when Dean asked Sam to be with him, I get that this is his realization that being with Sam is his happiness and he needs to hold on to that even if Sam does not accept him as a brother (aarg!!!)

It is also necessary I guess for them to be together for the whole Dean in peril story line to affect Sam directly. And we can't have him be understanding until that happens.

I really hope we see that soon.


Date: 2014-01-29 09:47 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hells-half-acre.livejournal.com
True, there are probably packs/nests we never hear about, because they're actually doing things the right way. ;)

I thought it was interesting though that they had Garth, and then Dean reiterating that speech by Gadreel's friend - remember? finding your own happiness and hanging on?

Good observation - I wonder if that's the theme of this season...

It is also necessary I guess for them to be together for the whole Dean in peril story line to affect Sam directly. And we can't have him be understanding until that happens.

Very true.

Date: 2014-01-29 06:36 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] marlowe78.livejournal.com
Also, does "Bringing in the Sheaves" not have more words than that? Because my god...that's a dull hymn. They should have been singing Lord of the Dance, that one is much more fun.

Ooooooooooooh... and here I was, thinking first "well, isn't it a bit ironic for a group f werewolves to sing 'bringing in the sheep'?" - and then I wondered why they said 'sheeps' all the time.
I didn't know the word sheaves - thanks for enhancing my vocabulary (though I really love the idea of the wolves singing about sheep ;-) )

well, too creepy organized religion to me. Sorry organized religion folks, but yeah, it really creeps me out. So, I was kind of with Dean on this one - it was too creepy to be genuine.

Oh yes! Bess already creeped me out, and that whole group... but like Dean, once we all saw that not all is as holy as they appear and they are just as human (ha!) as everyone else, I felt comforted again.

Also, I like the fact that the Reverend tells us that Dean still gets scared after all these years... that's a cool bit of character info. It's kind of...understandable and also a little heartbreaking? I don't even know.

I found that very comforting, that Dean isn't just cool with killing a man who isn't attacking him right then. And being scared makes him less of a super-human and more like just a guy.

and part of me can't help but think of 5x01, where Dean told Sam that he couldn't be trusted. So, now I guess it's Dean's turn.


Yeah, but Dean never denied Sam being family. Mistrust - yes, that has been around plenty with them. the whole s4 is filled with mistrust on both sides. And I do get Sam's anger, it's wholly understandable.
Then again, I kinda wanted Dean to hand Sam a gun and say "Well, you wanna be dead? Go for it! I'm not holding you back this time - if that's what you want, do it" - because I do NOT believe that Sam really wants to be dead. (Dean'd never do it, because a), Sam might pull the trigger and b) he's still feeling bad about his choice)

as I said, I get Sam's anger, and the way I see it, he is lashing out because of it. But what did he expect, really? After all those years knowing his brother he is NOW suddenly surprised that Dean places him higher than anything else? Where has he been all these years?

ah, well. I kinda liked Dean's shrug when he accepted Sam's terms. because really... you cannot deny family just like that. You are, or you're not. So whatever Sam wants right now won't really matter, because he can't force Dean to NOT be his brother. He can withhold friendship (ouch - and I honestly think that'd be unfair, but I am biased) but Dean will STILL move Heaven and Hell for him.

So yeah... whatever ;-)


Edited Date: 2014-01-29 07:01 pm (UTC)

Date: 2014-01-29 09:54 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hells-half-acre.livejournal.com
I didn't know the word sheaves - thanks for enhancing my vocabulary (though I really love the idea of the wolves singing about sheep ;-) )

You're welcome! It's not a word that comes up very often unless you are on a wheat farm. :P

But I agree, werewolves singing about sheep would have been hilarious!

I found that very comforting, that Dean isn't just cool with killing a man who isn't attacking him right then. And being scared makes him less of a super-human and more like just a guy.

Agreed!

So whatever Sam wants right now won't really matter, because he can't force Dean to NOT be his brother. He can withhold friendship (ouch - and I honestly think that'd be unfair, but I am biased) but Dean will STILL move Heaven and Hell for him.

I think Sam's not necessarily denying that their family - I think he's denying Dean's ability to use it as an excuse. I think that when it comes down to it for Sam, he's upset about being tricked, because Dean knew he'd rather die then be possessed, so Dean tricked him instead of honouring that wish... so now Sam might be wondering if Dean talking him out of closing hell was just about Deans codependence and another trick? I don't know.

My point is though, that I think Sam feels that they won't be able to figure out what's broken in their relationship if Dean just continues to justify all his actions with "because family!" so Sam is trying to figure out how to take that excuse away from him so that Dean will actually have to examine the REAL reasons.

Whether Sam can actually do that or not, I don't know. But I think Sam figures that they can work in a professional capacity while they figure out how to fix their dysfunctional family relationship.

Date: 2014-01-29 11:03 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] marlowe78.livejournal.com
hm, yeah to your ideas about Sam's reasons.

But honestly... can't he just say that? I get it, I do. I understand his frustration and his mistrust about Dean's motives - it's very much based on solid fact. And he has every right to be angry.

So why not say it like that? Come on, how should Dean know what Sam means when he's being so vague? I get that the Winchesters are not very good at talking, but all this vague hints about something are topping everything in their lives right now.
Sure, they never talked much but I always figured that was Dean's spiel and Sam was the one who was better with words.


*sigh*

Ah well... I do like conflict in their lives, I really, really do. This, though, seems to be a bit too staged to make sense. I'll wait and see.

I have the tiniest niggling thing.

Date: 2014-01-30 09:03 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] harsens-rob.livejournal.com
I know it's really silly, but I can't let go of the idea that having Sam *not* get into the Impala at the end would've been a more powerful statement about the brothers' new relationship.

Sam should've gone through his spiel, Dean agrees - blah, blah, but Sam then tells Dean that they'll meet back at the motel, and gets into his own vehicle.

From this point, we see Sam and Dean traveling in separate vehicles to denote the stress between them.

And it's bugging me way more than it should. It feels like they're trying to change the Winchester dynamic for the drama, without giving up the status quo of the brothers hunting together which feels a little cop-out-y.

Truthfully, I'd have been just as happy seeing them on separate cases or both of them trying to hunt down Kevin's killer in their own ways, occasionally coming together, occasionally on their own separate mini-missions and highlighting the difference in their approaches and personalities along the way.
Edited Date: 2014-01-30 09:04 am (UTC)

Re: I have the tiniest niggling thing.

Date: 2014-01-30 10:21 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hells-half-acre.livejournal.com
I agree with you. I actually really like when they're separated - and much like most relationships, I think the distance could actually HELP in sorting things out. It always kind of annoys me when they do these mid-season splits and they always only last one episode.

Date: 2014-01-30 09:56 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kuhekabir.livejournal.com
With the little chat at the end of the episode I am kind unsure what to make of it.

On one hand I have to agree with Sam. Trusting Dean now would require a huge leap of faith.

But I also agree with Dean. What was he supposed to do? And if anyone had the chance to save a loved one, they would all take it. Including Sam. No one is that 'good' or 'moral' or whatever not to do anything to protect those you love...

Granted, those boy take it a bit further than anyone else...

So I am with Sam for not being able to trust Dean while at the same time I am with Dean for doing what needed to be done.

It makes my head hurt.

LOL.

Date: 2014-01-30 10:25 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hells-half-acre.livejournal.com
Same here.

I think it's because Sam's upset about his wishes not being respected - that Dean KNEW that Sam would rather die then be possessed.

And I guess we're like "but at least Sam's ALIVE", but then all Sam probably sees is that Kevin is dead because Dean let something they couldn't trust into the bunker (and into a disguise that Kevin thought he COULD trust)... so, probably Sam just sees "I'm alive, but Kevin is dead because of it."

Ugh, Winchesters.

Really, neither one of them is completely right and neither one of them is completely wrong. :P

Date: 2014-02-04 04:56 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] metallidean-grl.livejournal.com
Interesting comments here. Most of the pretty safe to read, too, especially if I am trying to keep my squee and love for Dean.

As for the Teen Mom comment. I really didn't understand that either. But, if it is a nod to teenage girl/rape kinda thing - totally wrong and off base. The comment should not have been added.

The MoTW werewolf story, for me, was rather boring. I enjoyed it a little more the second time I watched it, but I still found the new Canon for werewolves were a little inconsistent with what we already knew about them. How in the heck does this fit in with Madison, and her experience. She was bitten, she only turned on the full moon, she didn't have any memory of turning, or what she did. So, here now, we get some borns and bittens and they ALL have control over turning AND memories of turning. I just don't get that. So, like you said - I'm very conflicted with this werewolf Canon.

You know, growing up Sam always balked against John and the orders he barked. And now, Sam balks against Dean and how he makes decisions for him, and so on and so on and so on...ad nauseum. But when you watch this episode, Dean is giving the orders and Sam follows him without question, without rebuttal, he just does what Dean says. I don't get this Sam that at the end saying he wants to speak for himself, etc., and yet he follows Dean's orders without question. What's with that?!

I loved it when the Reverend told him he could hear Dean's heart beating faster and how he has fear. I think it is a good thing that Dean still fears, and gets nervous when facing down an enemy. To me, that means he doesn't have a death wish, that he hopes to come out of this fight alive, and he will do what it takes to get there. If he had a death wish, I don't think he would feel that fear. He would go into every situation full bore, not really caring whether he lived or died. So, fear = still wanting to live = no death wish = me happy.

I loved all the kills Dean had in this episode. Dean is still the badass hunter we all know and love. The fact that he threw the knife dead on as well as the gun shot - Dean is a great marksman, isn't he? This episode and those shots really proved it.

Thank you for calling out about the hunter community being without their new Bobby figure. I thought about that myself the other day, and thought there should have been some mention about that. I mean, the last time we saw Garth they made a BIG deal about Garth being the new Bobby, and now a season later, NOTHING. Just a little pet peeve of mine. But, as far as seeing Garth again.....personally, I really hope we don't see him again. I liked him okay enough, but he never enamored me all that much. So, I would be fine if we never see him again.

Dean's speech to Sam did see a little stunted. I just took that as Dean being uncomfortable, and wanting to say he was sorry, but not exactly sure how to say it or what to say. So, Dean being Dean goes about his "sorry" in a very awkward way. The whole scene seemed a little awkward for me, mostly awkward for the brothers.

There were a lot of comments about Dean's statement about family. My interpretation of him saying that was not necessarily that just because they are family that everything will be okay. I just think he meant it more of saying, "we're family" nothing means more than family. When there are two friends that have a disagreement and have problems of this kind of magnitude, much of the time that would be the end of the friendship. But, family is different. Because they are family, you want/need to fight for that relationship. You need to do all that you can do to salvage your relationship with this person. They will always have a part in your life, no matter what. And I think Dean was just saying, we're family, we need to work this out, we need each other, because who else do we have. No one. And then Sam comes back with - well, Dean, I don't think we can be family......man, talk about a knife to the heart. It was a slap in the face. If Sam wanted to hurt Dean, and hurt him where it counts the most for him, well, he certainly did that. So, yea, I'm irritated and frustrated with Sam right now. No one hurts my Dean like that and gets away with it.

Date: 2014-02-04 06:44 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hells-half-acre.livejournal.com
But when you watch this episode, Dean is giving the orders and Sam follows him without question, without rebuttal, he just does what Dean says.

I actually disagree with this. Sam questioned Dean a few times, basically, any time that Dean was ready to call them all evil and go in shooting - Sam asked if Dean was really willing to kill Garth over such little evidence, and when they were sitting on the car in the dark, Sam was pointing out that there was no reason to be sitting on the car in the dark - that Dean was being paranoid and they should leave (I mean, it turns out Dean was right - but Sam was still questioning Dean's actions.)

I loved all the kills Dean had in this episode. Dean is still the badass hunter we all know and love. The fact that he threw the knife dead on as well as the gun shot - Dean is a great marksman, isn't he? This episode and those shots really proved it.

Yes, I have been loving the last two episodes for this reason. I love badass Dean!

I mean, the last time we saw Garth they made a BIG deal about Garth being the new Bobby, and now a season later, NOTHING. Just a little pet peeve of mine.

Yeah, it annoys me too... especially since Sam and Dean are actually in the perfect position with the Bunker to become the new Bobby themselves...and yet it's not even in question. They're still out there just hunting and not thinking of anyone else in the hunting community. Now, mind you, Sam and Dean have a horrible relationship with the hunting community, so maybe there's a reason for that. But, like I say in the post, I really think it's something someone like Kevin could have done - so it pisses me off that they killed him.

And I think Dean was just saying, we're family, we need to work this out, we need each other, because who else do we have. No one. And then Sam comes back with - well, Dean, I don't think we can be family......man, talk about a knife to the heart. It was a slap in the face. If Sam wanted to hurt Dean, and hurt him where it counts the most for him, well, he certainly did that. So, yea, I'm irritated and frustrated with Sam right now. No one hurts my Dean like that and gets away with it.

I agree, it's like a knife to the heart for Dean... but, being the bi-bro!girl that I am, I completely understand why Sam said it. And ironically, it was for the same reason Dean was saying they were family - they need to work things out. Sam, I think, is just trying to say that they have to demolish their relationship entirely and build it back up properly piece by piece in order to do so. At least, that was my interpretation.

Other than that, I agree with everything you say! Don't like the Teen Mom comment if it's referencing what people seem to say it's referencing...conflicted on the changes to mythology...glad Dean still gets scared before a fight... yup, we seem to be on the same page!

Date: 2014-02-04 03:31 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] metallidean-grl.livejournal.com
You are correct, Sam questioned Dean when it involved the direction of how to take the case. I guess I needed to clarify myself a little bit more as far as Dean giving orders and Sam following them. What I meant was, when they were in the hospital going after Garth, Dean told Sam to go to the farmer, he would check out the hospital, and then again at the deer killing, Dean told Sam to clean it up and do something else, while he went to the church - that is what I meant by orders. It seems when it comes to dividing up tasks, Dean just takes on the mantle and gives direction as to who does what - and in these instances, Sam didn't raise up any kind of fuss.

Date: 2014-02-04 05:36 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hells-half-acre.livejournal.com
Ah, true, but Sam's never raised any sort of fuss at those orders. He's usually pretty focused on the job and tends to put personal matters aside... the exception being, of course, when he was with John, John would tell him what to do without telling Sam any of the case details first. Sam and Dean both have the exact same knowledge of the case at these points, so Sam has no reason to argue, and the tasks need to be split up for them to be as efficient as possible... so it doesn't make sense for him to argue.

But, that's just my opinion of course!

Date: 2014-02-04 05:57 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] metallidean-grl.livejournal.com
Very true. Sam did have knowledge of the case and knew what was going on, so, yea, I guess there would be no reason for him to argue with Dean, as he did with John. From what we saw when they were working with John, he did seem to be a little less verbose when it came to the particulars of the hunt. But, I do find it hard to believe that it was like that ALL the time. I mean, if they were always together, I would think Sam knew a little bit more about what was going on, and I think he still argued the case with John, because Sam just wanted to. IMHO. ;)

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