hells_half_acre: (Bloody)
[personal profile] hells_half_acre
Hello! Late one tonight... sorry...

Walking home, I was really worried that no song would come on the iPod that would give me a good lyric for this episode - I went through Moist, the Beatles, Jason Collett, Johnny Cash... and nothing... and then finally, JUST as I was walking in the door, Jonny Lang saved the day.

So, let's talk about this episode...

Okay, so right off the bat, I knew this was an episode about Prometheus. And just, for the record and to admit my biases: I adore Prometheus. So I was excited to see what Supernatural would do with him.

Apparently, they're going to first hit him with a car... and we get a stand-up individual who hits and runs. Great....

I LOVED the crow eagle eating his liver, just before the cop found him. Perfect homage to the real myth. But cop dude, do you really have to check for a pulse when the dead guy has a gaping hole in his gut and has already been picked at by a bird? I mean, I guess better safe than sorry... especially since, HE'S NOT DEAD!

Cut to the bunker... Sam is having his morning sip of water, when he suddenly spits blood back up. Gross! I was really worried he was going to start losing teeth or something here - teeth falling out grosses me out to no end, so I was really happy when it was just a whole lot of blood. Sam goes immediately into "hide the evidence mode"  - and I love how Dean can see the "cagey" a mile away. Sometimes the show isn't that consistent with characters, but one thing I love when they get right is how if you spend nearly 24/7 with one person for 8+ years (even with "vacations away from each other") you will be able to pick up that person's mood in SECONDS.

And I love how matter-of-fact Dean is about it, "Cas is MIA, Kevin's silent, and you're acting cagey." (or whatever the line is).

Sam distracts him with possible zombie hunt, and it's off to Montana to find interview a sheriff!

I love the reversal they do here with Sam and Dean pretending like zombies don't exist and the sheriff believing wholeheartedly that they do.


So, I like that they made Prometheus a good looking dude... I do not approve of the name "Shane" though, and the fact that at times he seemed rather "surfer dude" rather than tortured Titan... but those are really minor quibbles. I actually really like the way Sam and Dean responded to him - but I'm getting ahead of myself.

I loved the conversation outside the morgue window while Prometheus wakes up - and then Sam and Dean noticing. They take him back to the motel, because they can't really explain why the dead guy is alive... and they discover that "Shane" has amnesia, but has been dying every day for as long as he can remember. He was apparently found on "some mountain in Europe" as a supposed victim of an avalanche. (And this is kind of funny, because to my knowledge there is no skiing in Greece... mind you, I don't think the myths ever really specified WHICH mountain, so maybe Zeus sent him to the Alps. (Another quibble: The "mountain in Europe" line was a good vague premise the first time it was said, but when it was repeated by Hayley later it was too obvious of a vague premise. She should have just said that she went on a ski trip with her friends and not bothered reconfirming the location.)

Sam and Dean think he might be cursed by a witch. I guess since they just got off a witch case, they've got them on the brain... I loved Dean's line about how Sam would have to be the one to do the "body cavity search for the hex bag"  - because he has a point about why the curse doesn't really fix with a witch's MO.

Instead, they get a separate room and leave Shane to sleep... only Shane is attacked by a hot goth chick! Oh no? I feel like I'm quibbling all over this Quick Reaction, but it might have been nice to have less cuts in that fight. I guess the actors were bad at pretend fighting? Usually if your actors are somewhat decent you don't need that many quick cuts (says she of very limited directorial-knowledge.)

I LOVED how Artemis (aka: hot goth chick) vanished into thin air. In the past few weeks I've been writing a fantasy novel in my head and a couple of my leads can vanish into thin air and that was EXACTLY how I pictured it... so, I kind of had a moment where I was like "It IS as cool as it was in my head!!"

I also liked how they made her weapons seem otherworldly without actually doing too much to them... they just sort of gave them that mercury look, and that was enough.

Yay, they saved Shane! Only... HEART ATTACK. As SOON as Shane started rubbing his left arm, I'm like "I know what's about to happen..." and yup. I did love the boys though, "Should we call 911?" "And tell them that the body we stole from the morgue is having a coronary!?" Oh boys, your lives are weird.

So, Prometheus dies yet again.... and the boys wait around for him to wake up. Only, there's a brunette at the door! Okay, this is where my "can't tell brunettes apart" problem comes into play, because I seriously thought "What, they're just going to answer the door because the murderous girl from last night changed her clothes and knocked?" But no.... DIFFERENT GIRL. (Geez... I can't even blame racism, because it's my own frickin' race. I have no idea what is wrong with my facial recognition abilities.)

Anyway, her name is Hayley and she's got a cute blond kid with her.... and uh, yeah.... in the long tradition of Greek gods not being able to keep it in their pants, apparently Titans have the same problem.

Hayley gives them the same story - and then it's awkward family reunion time when Prometheus wakes up.

I think this is the point where Dean and Sam have the best exchange of the episode, which I wish I could remember word for word, but I'll have to paraphrase. Sam: "What do we know that has Jason Bourne like powers, dies a lot, and has a history with violent women?" Dean: "I don't know, you?" Heheheh

Anyway, Sam puts it together that it's Prometheus. Now, besides the quibble that any person who has read mythology should know damn well who Prometheus is, and if Dean knew enough about Prometheus to know that he gave humans fire, he should have bloody well known the entire myth... but, whatever, you need an excuse to explain it to the audience, so one of the Winchesters has to be your fall-guy.... anyway, like I was saying, BESIDES all that, I absolutely loved the way Sam explained the Prometheus story.

What I love is that they're immediately sympathetic and THANKFUL to Prometheus. He's a buddy. He's been suffering for eternity because he helped humanity, therefore he's in the friendly monster catagory along with Castiel. So, yeah, I was really pleased about that.

Then came the other twist: The Prometheus curse is hereditary! Oliver, Prometheus' demi-Titan son, has started to die every day ever since he turned 7, which is apparently the age of manhood in ancient greece. Really? 7?! His balls haven't even dropped.

So, it's not about saving Prometheus, which is probably a fools errand, it's about saving the innocent kid. (Sidenote though: I wonder if Oliver gets any other powers as a demi-Titan). Then it's off to the Bunker!

This is the first time that they've brought other people into the Bunker! Dean's is bragging about it, but the whole time I'm like "DEAN! It's a SECRET BUNKER. You are going to have to kill them now! THEY KNOW THE SECRET!" Geez, Dean, I'm not sure you would have made it through initiation...

(Location sidenote: I forgot to mention, but the motel that they just left was one that they used before, a couple of times. I think they first used it in S1 in Hell House, and then again in S2 in Bloodlust.)

DRAMATIC RESEARCH TIME! Seriously, speaking as someone who works as a researcher, I LOVE whenever Supernatural dramatizes hours of library research. I find it hilarious, but it also kind of makes me feel like a bad ass.

Dean finds the solution, some dude named Dracopolis (Dragon Penis? That is NOT what polis means, Dean). Anyway, Dracopolis once summoned and trapped Zeus and had a weapon that could kill him or something... to tell you the truth, I don't remember the explanation.

So, the plan is to treat Zeus like a witch/crossroad's demon - summon him, ask him to remove the curse, and then kill him if he doesn't and hope that works. You know, never mind that it's ZEUS. I do love this aspect of the Winchesters though, the fact that they DO use their ability to bluff more often than not....which is something that Hayley can't wrap her head around.

Also, kind of hilarious that they corrected themselves with the fulgurite....

While Dean and Hayley drive to a gem store. Sam digs up a body... and Prometheus asks him why the hell he's helping them, and Sam's like "*shrug* It's my job, and you saved humanity, and even though you're doomed to a horrible fate, it's worth it!" And Prometheus is like... "uh, are you made of sunshine and rainbows?" or maybe that last line was in my head.

Summon Zeus time! And he pulls the ol' "let me out of the trap and I'll do what you want" trick, and Dean bluffs him right back... but Hayley is a horrible poker player and lets him out of the trap. And Zeus is like "Tell me, Hayley, has Prometheus seen his son die?" and she's like "Yuppers" and he's says, "and does it cause him pain?" and HAYLEY I SWEAR TO FRICKIN' GOD....

Listen, first rule of getting what you want out of your enemey (morals aside): KNOW WHAT YOUR ENEMY WANTS. Maybe, just MAYBE if Zeus cursed Prometheus to die a horrible death every day for ETERNITY, he MIGHT be interested in Prometheus suffering as MUCH AS POSSIBLE. So telling him that his kid dying makes him suffer is NOT going to convince Zeus to lift the curse, it's going to convince him to chain the kid to the mountain next to him. THIS ISN'T ROCKET SURGERY! What you wanted to do was to tell Zeus that Prometheus was cool with it and actually liked having a little dying buddy... I mean, that might not have worked, but it definitely wouldn't have been WORSE.

Anyway... oh hey, when did Artemis come in? At some point Artemis comes in...and tacks Sam and Dean to the wall, and then has them follow her out of the room. And this is where Sam shines... and I start wanting Sam/Artemis make-out times. Because Sam plays Artemis, first reminding her that she's the god of Hunters (and therefore should be on their side) and then putting motivations together and coming up with the fact that odds are Artemis has a thing for Prometheus and doesn't want to kill him....

And I LOVED Artemis stroking Sam's cheek with her weapon (*cough*) and saying "I like you"... because a)HOT, and b)Someone likes Sam! (Seriously, I try not to sound like a bitter Sam!girl, because I love Dean just as much, but I'm kind of sick of Dean getting all the friends.)

But most importantly, IT WORKS! Artemis turns on her father and saves the day! WITH ARCHERY! (Seriously, someone better write me some Sam/Artemis/Archery fic.)

Okay, Artemis doesn't QUITE save the day. She shoots Zeus, but Zeus uses PROMETHEUS SHIELD BLOCK and it is super effective. Now, apparently there's something with Artemis' weapons that kills gods dead dead... So, Prometheus is done for, but I absolutely love that Prometheus proved himself a BAMF to the very end and pushed the arrow through himself into Zeus, taking him down too.

Then we get Artemis taking away Zeus' body, but leaving Prometheus behind, basically acknowledging that Hayley loved him also, and that Prometheus loved her too - once his brain had gone to so much mush that he couldn't remember Artemis, anyway. Then it's burn the corpse time... and I did like the tie in with the visual of the Dean lighting the fire.

Sam tries to cheer up the kid with icecream - which, uh, yeah... "so the dad you only just met is dead now, will ice cream cheer you up?" and the kid is like "No" and Sam is like "awkward"... and they do sort of have  this weird look exchange which I couldn't decipher the meaning of, and I couldn't help but find it awkward.

Then it's important talk in the Impala time! Sam has suddenly come around to Dean's viewpoint and figures that sealing hell is going to kill him - because saving humanity ALWAYS kills him. And Dean points out that Sam basically promised him that if Sam would survive no matter what, and that if Sam's going to die, it's going to be from something "normal". "Like a heartattack?" Sam replied, incredulously, because they just saw Prometheus have a very unnatural heartattack, not to mention that Sam's body giving out early as his lungs slowly filling up with blood could be considered a normal crappy human death... but since Dean doesn't know about the blood, and he's too angry, he just shuts down the conversation.

But he IS worried... and once they're back home at the Bunker. Dean takes a moment to pray to Cas.... asking him to please watch out for Sam. And Dean was obviously hoping Cas would show up to talk to him like a good buddy would, but Cas is still MIA... and the episode closes on Dean's "where are you, man?" I really loved Dean's prayer - because he's prayer to Cas as though he's a powerful being, but he finishes the prayer by calling Cas "man" which really points to the weird middle ground that Cas occupies in the universe ever since he chose to fight for humanity instead of heaven - is he an agent of heaven or is he an agent of man?

And we break for three weeks! But the promo for the return episode looks crazy! It's going to be three weeks of antici-

Date: 2013-02-28 09:56 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ashkiryn.livejournal.com
Man, the Dean/Cas romantic parallels are getting less subtle by the episode.

Ahem. Ignoring that bit....

I really liked this episode. Also, it wasn't a crow eating at Prometheus in the beginning, but an eagle, but yes, it's accurate to the myth, and therefore wonderful. :)

Also, fuck, but Dean's prayer to Cas at the end broke my heart.

Oh, and I rather enjoyed Zeus's actor. Very well done. And, yeah, I *headdesked* at Hayley freeing Zeus as well....WOMAN, DISNEY AND POP CULTURE ALL LIES ABOUT ZEUS'S ~NICENESS~ OR WHAT THE FUCK EVER. (Lies about pretty much every Greek god's niceness, but anyway.) That was indeed THE WORST THING YOU COULD HAVE DONE. But at the same time, damn it boys, show some more sensitivity! This woman is clearly a civilian, and it's her 7-year-old son being cursed for eternity, OF COURSE SHE WAS GOING TO PANIC. Someone should have gone to her and started leading her out. At the very least, it would have put distance between her and the Circle, and thus if she had broken away to try to free Zeus anyway, there would have been more room to try to prevent her from doing so.

And Dean hugging Hayley at the end, and Sam trying to bond with a traumatized child and being thoroughly awkward about it, and then Prometheus summoning the strength to take out Zeus from looking at his son and seeing the family that he managed to create even during his shitfest of a life.....LOVELOVELOVELOVE.

Also, when Sam and Dean were talking about summoning Zeus to work him over and make him break the curse....I was side-eyeing the boys as well, because...for fuck's sake, this isn't an average, run-of-the-mill god, it's ZEUS. OF COURSE NOTHING CAN GO WRONG WITH THIS. (I'm slightly sad, though, because the being that immediately came to my mind as someone who could bully Zeus was Death, and I just want him to continue his streak of popping in once a season, you know?) OH, AND IF WE GET ZEUS, CAN WE PLEASE FUCKING HAVE HADES AT SOME POINT, AND ~PLOT TWIST~ HAVE HIM NOT BE A GIANT PRICK???? please supernatural this is all i ask of life ;;;;;;;;;;;;;

I'm desperately hoping and subscribing to the theory I saw on Tumblr, and that what's happening to Sam is just him coughing up his demon blood, and that this is the show's way of having him undergo a purification process like Dean did with Purgatory. PLEASE GODDAMNIT, LET THIS BE THAT. (because COME ON, that'd be so cool)

Um...I think I'm done for now.

Date: 2013-02-28 08:20 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hells-half-acre.livejournal.com
Man, the Dean/Cas romantic parallels are getting less subtle by the episode.

I try not to comment on them because part of me worries that my hours on tumblr have finally just infected my brain to the point where I'm hallucinating... but, um, YES.

I really liked this episode. Also, it wasn't a crow eating at Prometheus in the beginning, but an eagle, but yes, it's accurate to the myth, and therefore wonderful. :)

Oh! Man, I do not know my eagle species. I'm like "big dark bird = crow" which doesn't make any sense, because I think raven's are bigger.

Also, fuck, but Dean's prayer to Cas at the end broke my heart.

Mine too!

It WOULD have been awesome to see Death again, but his parting words the last time mean that they can't summon Death again - they'll have to wait for him to come to them, if we're ever going to see him.

It'd be cool if they did Hades, and not had him be a prick. I guess there's always that possibility for the future. But yeah, I was with you on the whole "Zeus is not your run of the mill pagan god, boys."

I'm desperately hoping and subscribing to the theory I saw on Tumblr, and that what's happening to Sam is just him coughing up his demon blood, and that this is the show's way of having him undergo a purification process like Dean did with Purgatory. PLEASE GODDAMNIT, LET THIS BE THAT. (because COME ON, that'd be so cool)

That's my favourite theory too. I'm crossing my fingers for that one, but I somehow doubt we'll be so lucky. It WAS one of my first thoughts though when Sam started coughing up blood. I wondered if maybe he was being molded into a "servant of heaven" somehow, and that meant getting rid of the demon parts of him. It'd be really neat if Sam came out of this purified... but again, knowing that this is Supernatural, it's probably going to be something horrible. It IS still my favourite theory though, cynicism aside.

Date: 2013-02-28 08:36 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ashkiryn.livejournal.com
I really don't think you're hallucinating. People who were against shipping in general and against this ship in particular are coming on board, and this episode marks the sixth romantic parallel to Dean and Cas, so...I really don't know what else to think, here. (Yes, I know that there are other parallels to them that have been shown that aren't romantic---Aaron and the Golem being the most prominent---but come ON; SIX romantic ones? That is NOT coincidence.) And I thought that they couldn't get more blatant than Charlie/Gilda....silly me. :P

Yeah, ravens are bigger than crows, but not even a raven is as big as an eagle. Also, see the curve of the beak, the head shape, and the talons...definitely an eagle. :)

DEATH, PLEASE COME BACK TO US!!! (and lol, that sounds so weird XD)

Seriously. Hades's portrayal in pop culture makes me so furious, and just...I'm praying so hard that Supernatural will not fall into the same pitfall. (I'm fifty/fifty on whether I believe they will...on the one hand, most gods are horrible, but on the other, Death is the most reasonable authority figure in the 'verse, so....*crosses fingers*)

*also crosses fingers for Sam coughing up demon blood* I mean, I'm thinking that if this IS the case, then there's going to be some kind of horrible kick-back/recoil to it, but I'm hoping that it's the kind of thing that will work out for the best in the end. Also, I don't think anything TOO terrible can happen to Sam, because he IS going to be in another season, with another being hoped for afterwards.

Date: 2013-02-28 08:51 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hells-half-acre.livejournal.com
Yeah, my main objection to the ship (before this season) was the fact that Dean was vehemently against monsters... like, to the point of being completely "racist" and hating them on principal with every fiber of his being... and the fact of the matter is (even though most people seem to forget it) is that Cas is a "monster" (ie: not human).

But this season, Dean's done a complete turn-around and is now willing to be friends with and have mercy for monsters.

And yeah, that was really the only barrier to the ship that I saw, because I happen to think that a)Dean is bisexual, and b)Cas (in his true form) is genderless anyway.

Now that being said, the other problem is Jimmy. We've never gotten confirmation that he's dead... I think he is, but we've never gotten confirmation.

So, yeah, I don't know... on the one hand, I don't believe that the show will ever actually go there (maybe I'm cynical), and on the other hand, the parallels JUST KEEP COMING. So, I'm horribly confused.

Seriously. Hades's portrayal in pop culture makes me so furious, and just...I'm praying so hard that Supernatural will not fall into the same pitfall.

Yeah, it's because of the whole "anything associated with death is evil" trope - that I figure must be Christian influenced, because it seems the most prominent in Christian cultures. Christianity just doesn't have the nuance and grey areas that "pagan" religions have.

That being said, I'd agree with your 50/50 chance.

Part of my own personally headcanon is that Sam is as big as he is because of the demon blood... so, him getting rid of the demon blood, in my mind, might effect him physically. That being said, it's not like Jared can change how tall he is, so I doubt that will happen on the show.

Date: 2013-02-28 09:20 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ashkiryn.livejournal.com
Yeah, I've seen many problems before that needed to be worked through before Destiel had the remotest chance of becoming canon...but the thing is, THEY'RE WORKING THROUGH THEM. Dean's coming to terms with his own repressed bisexuality, and for the first time, learning to be completely comfortable in his own skin and that it doesn't matter what John might think or judge him for it (this not only includes said bisexuality and attitude towards monsters and hunting and his own worth and intelligence, but also his wardrobe, music choices, and geekiness). Dean and Cas are working through their trust issues and general self-sacrificial and suicidal tendencies and depression (or at least, mostly on Dean's part at the moment, given that we haven't seen Cas in a while). There's really no longer a power gap between them: Cas fought through Hell to get to Dean, and Dean's now fought his way through Purgatory to get to Cas; Dean gets to be the imparter of knowledge and experience towards Cas in "Hunteri Heroci" when it comes to hunting; Cas is probably going to get depowered, as he's going to be a regular in season 9, and etc, etc. And we all know that Sam's going to accept it.

Like you said, the only unknown in the equation is Jimmy, which is something that I also hope we're going to get some answers to, because Jimmy in general makes me uncomfortable on his behalf, let alone in regards to a level up in Dean and Cas's relationship.

Um, anyway...yeah, I know why Hades is portrayed the way he is in pop culture. And I wouldn't mind nearly as much if there was just ONE, FUCKING ONE, INSTANCE IN WHICH HADES WAS NOT SHOWN AS BEING EVIL/THE DEVIL/A VILLAIN IN POP CULTURE.


Date: 2013-02-28 09:33 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hells-half-acre.livejournal.com
Haha, sorry, didn't mean to make you think I was telling you that stuff about Hades in Pop Culture because I thought you didn't know. :P

But yes, it would be nice to have ONE instance of someone writing Hades as something other than a villain.

The idea of Jimmy still being in Cas bugs me too. I like to believe that when Cas was brought back at the end of Swan Song, he was brought back without Jimmy - but as you say, it'd be nice to have a definitive answer on that.

I'm VERY interested to see where they're going with the end of this season and S9, because the fact of the matter is that the picture you point (and the train they seem to be on) is actually the equivalent of candy-canes and lollipops when it comes to Supernatural - so, now I'm waiting to see what will happen when the other shoe falls... because we can't ACTUALLY be working towards having an emotionally healthy Dean, a purified Sam, and a relatively safe Castiel, can we?

Date: 2013-02-28 09:45 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ashkiryn.livejournal.com
Exactly. I'm afraid to hope, and yet I still find myself hoping anyway. Damn it.

But then again, as someone that I follow on Tumblr has pointed out, each showrunner had a different goal. Kripke was all about the Pyrrhic Epic, and Gamble about stripping the boys of everything until it was just the two of them, and basically like a tragedy.

So the question becomes, what is Carver trying to achieve? Currently, he's established a home base, is building back up the supporting cast/what I think I've heard referred to as Dean and Sam's army/Sam and Dean having friends, Dean/Cas romantic parallels out the wazoo (because we've had them before, sure---Sam/Amy being the biggest example---but dayum, son), and is expanding the spectrum of the 'verse. So what's he up to?

Date: 2013-02-28 09:50 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hells-half-acre.livejournal.com
Well, that's the big question - and I wish I knew. I'm VERY intrigued to find out. Both Kripke and Gamble (each in their own way) were very much about the tragedy... but Carver? I'm not sure. So far, I like what he's building up.

I have a feeling we'll just have to wait and see how he ends the season before we can make any sort of call on what his goal/style is.

Date: 2013-03-01 07:54 am (UTC)
nic: (SPN)
From: [personal profile] nic
I am LOVING this discussion - and the idea of SPN without tragedy?! i don`t know if I dare hope for that (but wouldn`t it be wonderful, to think they had a chance of being happy?)

Date: 2013-03-01 08:27 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hells-half-acre.livejournal.com
I don't know if I dare hope for it either - or if it's an impossible pipedream... but that being said, Carver hasn't shown us yet what type of tragedy he's aiming for, and until he does, a non-tragedy is always a option (albeit it a slim one.)

Date: 2013-02-28 12:32 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] missyjack.livejournal.com
more later but there is skiing in Greece - including on Mount Olympos!

Date: 2013-02-28 08:19 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hells-half-acre.livejournal.com
I stand corrected! Obviously, I do not know much about Greece, or how high the mountains are, or how cold it gets in winter. :P

Date: 2013-02-28 12:57 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] raloria.livejournal.com
Everyone's all gushing over show using Greek myths and obviously doing their homework...oh, and all the love over Dean lighting the pyre at the end and bringing the myth full circle. Meanwhile, in my review I'm drooling over how beautiful the shot was when he lit the pyre. It made me remember John's funeral pyre, which also makes me think of Return Of The Jedi 'cause that was the first time I even saw a funeral pyre. :P

Anyway, I thought it was interesting how everyone else's reviews I've read so far are all fangirling over the mythology and I'm fangirling over the cinematography and not even thinking of that stuff. Once a filmmaking geek, always a filmmaking geek, I guess.

Oh, it's 3 weeks off, not 2.
No biggie. The break will be nice.

Date: 2013-02-28 08:22 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hells-half-acre.livejournal.com
I love the fact that you're a filmmaking geek! And yes! That shot was gorgeous! I often wish I knew a little more about filmmaking so that I could appreciate the work behind the beautiful shots.

And yeah, I messed up on the week's off. 2 weeks of repeats = 3 weeks of wait. :P This is why I shouldn't do math at 1am. :P

Date: 2013-02-28 08:29 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] raloria.livejournal.com
A lot of times when I'm watching things it's like half my brain is in filmmaking mode, because shots will just jump out at me and I'll notice them or try and figure out how they filmed it.

Meanwhile, the episode moves on and I miss stuff. LOL

Ah, well. That's what downloads are great for. ;)

Oh, and I'm also busy trying to figure out where things were filmed at. "Do I know that location? It looks familiar?"

Not to worry! I did that same mistake over on [livejournal.com profile] positively_spn and someone corrected me. :P

Date: 2013-02-28 08:38 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hells-half-acre.livejournal.com
Haha, yeah, that's why I purposefully shut off the part of my brain that timelines and keeps track of clothes while I watch. I still get distracted, especially by clothes, but I do my best not to be!

Date: 2013-02-28 08:39 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] raloria.livejournal.com
Ah! Speaking of clothing...Dean's red/maroon shirt. Is it new?

So happy to see him in that color again. :D

Date: 2013-02-28 08:53 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hells-half-acre.livejournal.com
I think it's the same one he wore back in S7 - most notably in Party On, Garth. (But it might have been new then - I'm not sure how I listed it in the catalog, because I don't think we got a clear shot of enough of it for me to make a call back then.)

ETA: Yeah, I made the wrong judgement call in S7 and listed it as possibly being his S2 red shirt, but it's clearly not. So, sigh... corrections are needed. I'll make a note and try to do them next weekend or something.

It looks gorgeous on him. He should really wear that colour more often. :)
Edited Date: 2013-02-28 08:56 pm (UTC)

Date: 2013-02-28 09:02 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] raloria.livejournal.com
Yeah, at first I thought it was the old red shirt we haven't seen in ages, but on a 2nd viewing it was clear the shirt is more maroon than red. *sigh* I could be wrong, but it also looks like a heavier material than the red one...maybe almost flannel? Noticed it had a little tag on the back, like a label. Let me know if you want some caps of it. Can grab them anytime.

Date: 2013-02-28 09:10 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hells-half-acre.livejournal.com
Definitely thicker material and more maroon than his previous red shirts. Also, if I'm not mistaken, there's a little brown label on his left breast pocket that marks the shirt as a Carharrt...which is a make he's worn in green, blue, and black before, but never red.

If you could send me just one clear shot of the front of it, that'd be cool. I usually don't put images from a new season in the catalog until I'm able to do the entire season - but obviously the appearance in S7 wasn't enough for me to identify it properly, so I'd like photo evidence to double-check that it was indeed the same shirt. (I remember thinking the shirt in S7 was too maroon to be his other shirts, but for lack of identifying characteristics, I put it down as a difference with the colour filters they were using.)

Date: 2013-02-28 09:50 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] raloria.livejournal.com
I was wrong about the label on the back and you were right - it's on the front. Think it's def the same shirt as Party On Garth though. ;)

I grabbed 4 caps from last night's ep of the shirt.


Date: 2013-02-28 09:53 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hells-half-acre.livejournal.com
Thanks! I really appreciate it. And yeah, definitely the same shirt from Party On, Garth - which means I've gotta correct the catalogue, put in a new entry, and redo my charts! Definitely a "next weekend" project. Since this weekend I'm going to be at ECCC! :)

Date: 2013-02-28 09:55 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] raloria.livejournal.com
Yeah, I won't be going. :(
Had hoped I could make it, but...not. Have fun for me and say hi to Misha.

Date: 2013-02-28 09:57 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hells-half-acre.livejournal.com
Aww, shame. :( I'll say hi to Misha if I see him. I'm only going on Saturday, and me and K agreed that since we're seeing Misha at VanCon, we're going to focus more on seeing non-SPN related people. :P

Date: 2013-02-28 10:00 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] raloria.livejournal.com
Ah, ok. That makes sense. How about Felecia then? She'll be there the whole weekend. Wish she was coming to VanCon, but that's unlikely.

Date: 2013-02-28 10:04 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hells-half-acre.livejournal.com
I'm not sure... It'd be nice to see her, but we haven't actually worked out the schedule yet of what we're going to do. Plus, I think Felicia's panel is on Sunday (when we'll be heading back north.)

But we'll see! :)

Felicia is so crazy busy... I think they signed her up for one Creation con... Vegas, maybe? I remember being surprised at that.

Date: 2013-02-28 01:57 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] katsheswims.livejournal.com
Loved your thoughts. We shared a lot of similar ones even related to the little disappointments about of some of the decisions--like the mountain thing.

I also thought Haley might have been a goddess in disguise for a while.

I'm glad you liked Artemis (or how she liked Sam--which I did too) I sort of liked her, but was also disappointed in how they changed an integral part of her mythical character--virgin & renouncer of men...I guess that's what SPN can do but if they just needed a goddess to love Prometheus and fight Zeus there were lots more to choose from.

Date: 2013-02-28 07:01 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ashkiryn.livejournal.com
I'm actually becoming quite pleased with what they did with Artemis, if you look at it in light of her being a parallel for Dean.

Here, have this link from Tumblr, which explains it better than I feel like doing at the moment (:P) :


Date: 2013-02-28 08:30 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hells-half-acre.livejournal.com
I'm not really sure if Artemis makes a better parallel for Dean or for Cas... I guess the problem is that Dean and Cas have always been parallels for each other, so if a third character parallels, we're always going to see them as fitting for both characters.

Date: 2013-02-28 09:00 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ashkiryn.livejournal.com
I'm kind of flip-flopping all over the place for the parallels as well, especially with Artemis, because when she first showed up, I was all "Dean parallel", what with Prometheus not remembering her, but then when she defied her father, I was like, "Holy Cas parallel Batman!". Anyway, I think each of them---Zeus, Prometheus, Artemis, and Hayley and Oliver---had parallels to at least two of our main characters. For instance, I think Zeus is both a God/Heaven and a John Winchester parallel, as Prometheus has parallels to both Cas and Sam, and then also to Dean. Artemis works as both a Dean parallel and one for Cas, especially so for the latter if you take one of Hayley and Oliver's parallels as being for Lisa and Ben; i.e. Artemis was willing to fight for Prometheus and his family even if it had no place for her in it, which is the same thing that Cas did for Dean in season 6.

In other words, I like Artemis = Cas, Prometheus = Dean, and Hayley and Oliver = Lisa and Ben as a reflection of sorts, a way of letting the audience subconsciously look back on past mistakes, but also giving the hope that things can be done better this next time around (see also 2014!Cas---first time Dean saw him, he was broken, but maybe this time around, even if Cas is heading down a similar path, we can see and highlight the differences, and it might not be so bad; also, Purgatory!Dean was possibly the closest we've seen Dean being like 2014!Dean). And then I like the Artemis = Dean parallel as fitting with season 8's theme of Dean coming into his own self and rejecting the roles enforced upon him by John and striking his own balance (also, it's curious, that both John and Zeus are so obsessed with revenge...).

The other parallel that I saw for Hayley and Oliver, ftr, was of them equaling Dean and Sam, respectively. In this case, Cas is Prometheus again: he's sacrificed so much for humanity, and is being punished and suffering, and yet amongst all that shitfest, he made a family. And they're worth it. And so he's glad to die for them. (Sam is Oliver because he's basically Dean's child, and also because they both, Sam and Oliver, had no control over their Otherness, and because Sam is currently suffering, and as shown in the end of the episode, Dean is seeking out Cas's help---the same way that Hayley is seeking out Prometheus's help. Also, both Dean and Hayley renamed Castiel/Prometheus, and gave them new identities: Cas and Shane (curiously with Cas's case, dropping the part of his name that means "of God").) (Dean is Hayley because who else do we know whose's done stupid things and played right into the enemy's hands for the love of their child-figure? Gee, that sounds so familiar! This gets even more interesting because, when you get right down to it, Prometheus sacrificed himself moreso for Oliver than for Hayley...and back in season 7, who was it that finally got through to Cas to give up the Purgatory souls? Oh yes, that was Sam. And now that Dean's asking, BEGGING, Cas to look out for Sam? HMMMMMM.)

Also, Hayley is a reminder of Daphne. PARALLELS FOR THE WIN!!!! :D

Date: 2013-02-28 09:14 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hells-half-acre.livejournal.com

Yes, this is the thing... it's also, I think a product of the show going on as long as it has, the more life experiences Dean and Sam accumulate, the more they can be reflected in those around them.

But yes, Artemis, I kind of see more as Cas than Dean... and Prometheus reflects both Winchesters (who have sacrificed themselves for humanity/their family). But yes, basically everyone in this episode had an aspect of the Winchester' story in their story.

Date: 2013-02-28 08:27 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hells-half-acre.livejournal.com
I thought the same thing about Hayley, but as soon as she revealed that her kid was dying everyday and she didn't know why, etc... I realized that she couldn't be a god.

See, to me, the implied sexual relationship thing was all Sam's guess, who obviously didn't do all his research. So, I didn't see her love for Prometheus as affecting her virginity status. That being said, it DOES affect her "renouncer of men" status... but, that didn't really bother me. I kind of like how in Supernatural they make things more grey and less cut and dried, and they twist the myths to make the "monsters" more human.

I don't think SPN could have chosen just any other goddess "to love Prometheus and fight Zeus" because they wanted specifically to use the goddess of the hunt, so that she could be Sam and Dean's goddess and have that conflict of interest (albeit small). They needed a way for Sam and Dean and the goddess to relate to one another, and the easiest way to do that is to have them all be the epitome of Hunters.

Date: 2013-02-28 07:36 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] marlowe78.livejournal.com
Hey there

So, this was indeed better than last ep, I think. It felt more like Sam and Dean, even though I'm a bit miffed about how they went with "secretly, the goddess of hunters and VIRGINITY is in love with a titan"... I mean, really? Why not just appeal to her sense of right and wrong - why not go about it with the innocence-rote, since clearly Oliver is an innocent and I damn well hope he's still a virgin!

So that pissed me off a bit.

I didn't even mind the "Mountain in Europe" repetition - it's America. They wouldn't know which mountain it was anyway but at least know that they crossed an ocean for it. *hides*

I liked Artemis - I liked her best of the Greek Gods anyway, and I liked her here, though I really wouldn't have minded if there was less carnal desire in her character.

If there had been more time, I'd have liked Sam or Dean or anyone countering Zeus, when he complained that it's Prometheus fault that humanity is not worshipping them any more. They could've argued that without Prometheus, there probably wouldn't BE anyone on earth to worship a god - and without worship, as we know, there is no power for them.

I think Sam and Dean should include the Huntress in their prayers now. It#s only fair ;-)

Date: 2013-02-28 08:35 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hells-half-acre.livejournal.com
The virginity thing doesn't piss me off at all, because I don't see love=sex... that was all Sam's insinuation and it kind of pissed Artemis off. It's true that Artemis refused to have anything to do with men though, so there's that... but still, I believe that you can love someone in an asexual manner. And Prometheus was a good guy, and fire no doubt helped Hunters hunt... which would have pleased Artemis.

I didn't really see anything (besides Sam's insinuations that she never confirmed and only pissed her off) that pointed a big sign to Artemis having a carnal desire for Prometheus. All I saw was evidence that she loved him SOMEHOW.

I think Sam and Dean should include the Huntress in their prayers now. It#s only fair ;-)

Agreed! ;)

Date: 2013-02-28 11:29 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] marlowe78.livejournal.com
Ah, good point about love/sex. I didn't think of it, but now I will see it like that. I'll be happier that way ;-)

Date: 2013-02-28 09:23 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ashkiryn.livejournal.com
Oh! And I just remembered that I forgot to comment on this before:

Yes, 7 was the age of manhood, in Sparta in particular. That's when they shipped their sons off for training in the military. Fun times, huh?

Date: 2013-02-28 09:28 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hells-half-acre.livejournal.com
Geez, remind me not to live in ancient Greece. :P

(The sad thing is that I studied classics before, I just don't remember any of it.)

Date: 2013-02-28 09:34 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ashkiryn.livejournal.com
Well, on the plus-ish side, bisexuality was the way of life...hell, Dean would have fit right in, sad as that is (since he, you know, was learning how to shoot a gun at six...).

Anyway, I get what you mean. I'm a big Greek myth buff, and right now it's killing me that I can't remember exactly what Artemis's thing with children is...because I SWEAR she is like a protector of children, and virgin girls in particular...but the details are escaping me. Like, I'm pretty sure I'm right, and have got the general picture, but it's fuzzy and I can't focus it, you know? Gah.

Date: 2013-02-28 09:41 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hells-half-acre.livejournal.com
Yeah, I hate it when that happens. I have the excuse that I haven't read/studied classics or Greek myth in 11 years... and most of the stuff I do see that refers to it are corruptions of pop culture.


Date: 2013-02-28 10:47 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] claudiapriscus.livejournal.com
I don't think it's you, I think it is the casting director. They cast remarkably similar brunettes. Also, I am pretty sure the age 7 thing is wrong wrong wrong. I don't remember much about classical Greece, but I remember the importance of the whole beloved/lover mentor relationship, and that was after puberty, and it was not constructed as something between men (equals) but as between a man and a youth. And it was before marriage, I am pretty sure. So we're talking teenagers here, at least. Iirc girls were married off very young, but boys not until their twenties or thirties.

Date: 2013-02-28 10:54 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hells-half-acre.livejournal.com
Oh good, so maybe I'm not insane - both with my inability to tell brunettes apart on SPN and my being skeptical about the age 7 thing. Because I REALLY don't remember that from when I took classics (albeit 11 years ago as it was.) But yeah, I DO remember the mentor relationship amongst men and that would have definitely been post-puberty.

Date: 2013-02-28 11:15 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] claudiapriscus.livejournal.com
they liked the peach fuzz on their boys, and you don't get that until well into those teenage years. Plus, it was kinda a rite of passage, so I am calling bullshit.

Date: 2013-02-28 11:24 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hells-half-acre.livejournal.com
Awesome. I am calling bullshit then too. I mean, specific Greek history aside... it just doesn't make sense no matter WHERE you live to think of a boy as a man before they reach puberty. I know there are cultures that marry really young kids, but to my knowledge they're still considered kids. When there's an actual physical sign of a change, it doesn't make sense to claim a change before then.

Date: 2013-03-01 01:47 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] etoile444.livejournal.com
I was happy with this episode. I think that both Dean and Sam had wonderful moments!!! :) I was just soooo happy that Prometheus was an ally and they were able to save the boy and give Prometheus a sacred pyre. And Dean at the end! Wow!

Plus, bonus bunker shots. I love that place.

Date: 2013-03-01 01:49 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hells-half-acre.livejournal.com
Agreed on all counts! :)


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