Quick Reaction: 8x07 A Little Slice of Kevin

[hells_half_acre]

Let's just dive right in, shall we?



WILL NO ONE SAVE MY BABY ANGEL?!!?! 

I can't even remember how this episode starts... I guess with the little boy being nabbed? Well screw talking about that... CROWLEY IS TORTURING MY BABY ANGEL!!! Oh god, the horror. I don't think you guys understand how much I love Samandriel. He's my little powerful ancient baby angel!! And if no one will think of him, think about poor little baby Alfie!! I don't even care that he cracked under pressure and told Crowley all the names of the prophets - SOMEONE NEEDS TO SAVE HIM! Oh god. It's horrible. And then when Crowley had deemed him to be telling the truth about the prophets, I thought for a horrible instant that Crowley was going to kill him - but no, he said to "put him on ice" - what does that mean? I THOUGHT it meant that Castiel or the Winchesters or SOMEONE might rescue him before the end of the episode, but no...no....the sadness. 

My friend said that I should prepare myself for him being another Adam - just... another forgotten victim... so, I've decided that if no one will save Samandriel, then I'm totally shipping him with Adam. So, my new OTP for Supernatural until I say otherwise is Samandriel/Adam. I'll write stories about them where they meet on the celestial plane and they'll just hold each other and sob about how no one ever rescues them. :P

Okay, umm... I guess I should talk about the episode - which you know, actually had very little to do with Samandriel and all to do with another angel that other fans love as much as I love Samandriel... so, you know, I'll indulge them, I suppose...it's the least I can do.

So, what happens first? Do we see Kevin, or do we see Cas? I kind of forget. You know, maybe I should just discuss their story lines a little bit separately until they meet up. We'll start with Kevin.

I like seeing Kevin and his mother. Mrs. Tran... (do we know her first name?)... is kind of hilarious, though I know she had made a mistake when she said she had contacted a witch. But, ah well... It's nice to see that she's conscious and up and about, and being possessed by Crowley that one time hasn't damaged her beyond repair. You can sort of understand now why Kevin himself is such a moral bad-ass who can rise to the occasion.

As much of a moral guy that he is though - I have to say that I loved the little touch of Kevin watching the witch's ass as she walked away. It was a nice little touch.

When the witch did show up and immediately asked to use the washroom, well, yeah, that's a dead giveaway that she's up to something. :P And sure enough, she let the demons in... Crowley takes Kevin and leaves orders to kill Mrs. Tran...and yeah, with someone who can break someone's neck with a snap of his fingers, Crowley was making a very Bond-Villain mistake there.

Okay okay, so let's talk about Sam and Dean... and Cas. :)

Now I can't remember what the heck song was playing while Dean was driving down the road, but I remember at the time finding it kind of hilarious.

Anywho, he sees Purgatory!Cas walking at the side of the road on the way to Rufus' cabin, and promptly slams on the breaks and reverses - only to find that Cas isn't there. SPOOKY. Is Dean insane? He probably feels it.

I like Sam's attempted "You look like you've seen a ghost" only he stops and admits that Dean would actually be stoked if he saw a ghost. Haha, oh Winchesters. But Dean brushes it off and listens as Sam explains about the missing people and the freak weather. Demonic omens for sure - which counts towards the hunt that Sam is ACTUALLY one. His one last hurrah (isn't that what the YED was supposed to be?)... so they go off to investigate...

I loved them interviewing the preschool lady, and Sam's little trick with saying the exorcism into the phone. That was cute. 

But, that's not the main story here - back at the hotel room, Dean is laptopping it and Sam is sleeping. And my goodness, how is it possible for Sam to look that small and adorable while curled up in bed? He's gotta be bending the laws of physics somehow. 

But Dean sees Cas peering through the window like a creeper. Oh Cas. And he shuts the laptop and goes to stand there - but Cas is gone. It wakes Sam up though - and I actually was pretty amazed when Dean was honest. He actually tells Sam that he saw Cas... he tells Sam that he feels guilty for making it out when Cas didn't. This is like HUGE STUFF for Mr. Dean Winchester here people. He and Sam are actually conversing like two relatively healthy adults! (Also, Sam is just in a t-shirt and sleep-pants... can we have more conversations like this please?)

Sam chalks it up to survivors guilt messing with Dean's brain. You'd think that last year they would have learned from the whole Ghost!Bobby thing that if one of them is seeing a "deceased" loved one, then something is screwy...but apparently not.

But it turns out that CAS IS BACK! He does the ol' 'appear behind Dean while he's at the bathroom sink' trick. I kind of wish that they'd shown his actual reunion with Sam...but, you know, that's just because I love the word "Sassy" I guess, so I wanted that segment of fandom to be happy...plus, I was sure that THIS time Sam would actually hug him. But maybe not. There were no Dean and Cas hugs either...mainly, I think, because Dean was all freaking out about what this meant for to his various emotional issues.

Sam IS happy to see Cas though. Cas, meanwhile, can't remember how he got out of purgatory, and just wants to shower. 

He also, apparently, hasn't been up to full strength...which makes me wonder if he's been following the Winchesters around invisible, or if he's been phasing in and out of reality...like, being in vessel form and then being a wavelength of celestial intent and then phasing back into vessel form. These are things we will never get an answer to.

He DOES regain the ability to magically clean his trench-coat, shave, and somehow conjure a suit and tie out of nothingness... something that seemingly all angels acquired the ability to do in S5.

Cas missed TV. Awww...

Also, it only occurred to me during the scene where Dean was listing the prophets and Castiel finished the list that Castiel has NO IDEA what's going on. He doesn't know about the whole "seal the gates forever" thing... or that Sam had quit hunting after he and Dean disappeared...or that Dean is all PTSD about everything.

Cas does mention though, that Kevin being awakened as a prophet means that Chuck is dead. I love how it's nearly FIVE YEARS LATER and they're only now realizing that Chuck is gone... oh god, there's little hope for Samandriel, is there?  

(I still prefer to think that Chuck was a particular kind of prophet with a particular task...just think about how different his "gift" worked to Kevin's... and that after his role was complete, he ascended to heaven, as prophets do... and that you don't necessarily have to think of him as God if you don't want to.)

Anyway, let's talk about Kevin.

I like Kevin...I kind of think that he was trying to stall Crowley as much as he could... but it's not like he knew his mother was still alive, or that Sam and Dean were coming, so he didn't have THAT much hope...so yeah, losing a finger is pretty bad...but he still reads that tablet as slowly as possible.

We didn't hear the whole note from Metatron. I REALLY want to know what the whole note said - because it was the last one Metatron wrote, and then it sounded like Metatron may have GONE somewhere... where? Do you think Metatron is somewhere on earth? It seemed to be a farewell note...so do you think he became human? But that would have happened centuries ago... so....maybe he's reborn again and again? Or...something else? I'm super intrigued now, but the only people who know are Crowley and Kevin and Kevin didn't say, damn it. Maybe it's nothing...but somehow I doubt that. Why include a P.S. from Metatron if it's not important. It couldn't possibly be just so that Crowley could learn that there's more than two tablets...I mean, no offense to anyone, but in my opinion, any idiot could have figured out that there's more than two tablets. There's probably a tablet on every single one of God's creations...humans, monsters, demons, angels...

Okay, back to Mrs. Tran. Mrs. Tran calls Sam. Yay! She's also managed to capture a demon and put him in her trunk...how she managed to do that, I don't know... she's a wizard.

So, off they go to rescue Kevin... (and I had hoped, Samandriel, but it appears that all my hopes were for naught.)

Sam gets to use a demon bomb! That was super cool. I wonder if the Winchester's will have they usual "somehow always have ingredients on hand" luck with these demon bombs, or if they really will be a rare weapon. One thing I love about Supernatural is that (for the most part) the characters actually do "level-up" over the years. (RPG fans know what I'm talking about here.)

Sam rescues the would-be prophets. I guess I didn't talk about them very much... um, I'll do that now. I like the whole "Are you an alien?" thing that they did with Crowley...because it's true. If people are actually applying modern urban legends to the circumstances they are in, the more popular explanation these days is aliens, not demons. Also, that German-looking dude was very German-looking, my god. He could have played Wolfenstein in the live-action movie. (Have they done that one yet? "Ach! Mein Leben!"....no one knows what I'm talking about, do they? Early 90s video-game jokes? Bueller?)

Anyway, um, two of the would-be prophets ARE killed, and that poor kid is probably traumatized beyond belief...but I like how Sam runs in and sees all the blood and is like "Ah damn it" and then everyone was just hiding behind the table.

Meanwhile, Dean's lock-picking skills are rusty, so Cas zaps his way in there and confronts Crowley all by his lonesome.

Okay...so, ONE thing that kind of pisses me off...and I'm sure a few of you will see this coming...but it kind of annoys me that they've just dropped the entire "Sam's damaged soul" storyline. Sam doesn't have any repercussions because Castiel took them - Castiel doesn't have any repercussions because for some reason purgatory cured him. It just...really annoys me. I'm not saying that I wanted Sam or Cas to stay insane...I'm just saying that it would have been as easy as Sam or Cas LEARNING TO DEAL. Even if they reduced it down to the occasional nightmare, I'd be happier than them just dropping the storyline completely. Hell, even if they had some sort of deus-ex-machina come down and partially rebuild the wall or something...just, ugh. I guess this isn't a complaint about this episode though, it's a complaint about S7. Sorry...sorry... I really do try to keep this journal positive, so I'll stop talking now and focus back on this episode.

I like the standoff between Crowley and Cas. I like that we got to see Cas' wing again and that "Look how bright I am" show of power thing that he does. That being said, no special effect of Cas' wings as ever looked as cool as the very first time we saw them. They were blurrier this time around...though, maybe that was part of the point, Cas IS still healing after all.

Cas breaks the tablet in two - meaning that the Winchesters have half and Crowley has half...and if the tablet reads top to bottom left to right (like for some reason I assume it does - even though I have absolutely nothing to base that one), then that means that the Winchesters could possibly have the chapter on sealing the hell gates and possibly the P.S. from Metatron...but I guess we'll have to wait and see. Like I said, I have absolutely no way of knowing how that tablet reads, so it could be that neither one of them has anything decipherable.

Okay, now let's talk about Dean's issues. I admit, I was wrong about why Cas was left behind in purgatory. Part of me really did want it to be Dean' fault, that Dean had been the one to make a moral mistake this time around...but, I suppose this serves me right for being so petty, because I mainly just wanted that so that all the high-horse "Dean can do no wrong" Dean!girls would have something to choke on. Like I said, petty. 

And I feel doubly bad about wanting that because that's what Dean thought too - that somehow he had failed Cas. That this was another one of his "I always let down the people I love" moments...and well, that's just horribly heartbreaking. And he was a bit cold with Cas when Cas came back, because he probably expected Cas to be mad at him for failing or something. Oh Dean...

Turns out though, that Cas WANTED to stay back. He wanted to be punished for his sins, and purgatory was a good place to be punished. It makes a LOT of character sense when you think about it. In S7, he was horrified to find that he was still alive because he "deserved to die" and then he took on Sam's hell-scars and was HAPPY to be crazy, to the point where I think he was subconsciously PLAYING crazy, because being crazy was a punishment...it was a very SUITABLE punishment, because he had made Sam crazy. Of course, that didn't really work, because the cage-damage was SAM'S atonement, not Castiel's...and I think Cas realized this when he got to purgatory....

Being in trapped in purgatory with monsters is a very fitting punishment for an angel that through his own arrogance unleashed the monsters of purgatory on the world. 

And he shows this to Dean, who had simply been remembering things the way he "needed to" ... which makes me wonder if now instead of feeding into Dean's "I fail everyone I love" issue, instead Castiel is feeding into Dean's "everyone I love abandons me" issue.... Dean's a tricky monkey to work around, emotionally speaking.

ETA: I gotta say though I LOVE the fact that Cas called Dean out on the whole "not everything is your responsibility" thing...mainly, because YES! But also because I think it really feeds into the theme of Free Will and Sam's line in 8x01 about whether Dean thought it was just for him. If Dean thinks that everything is his responsibility, it not only places him under an unnecessary burden, but it also negates everyone else's free will. Cas CHOSE to stay back, and yet Dean assumed that it was due to a failure on Dean's part. I think it also ties in to the whole Sam-quitting-hunting thing, because PostCage!Sam, I think, has accepted the fact that the world isn't his responsibility anymore. He can still choose to save it, but he can also choose to let other people save it... and I don't think Dean has reached that point yet. He still needs to be burdened by purpose in order to feel like he belongs, even though it inevitably leads to him feeling like a failure and losing everyone he loves.

(I will also say that between Dean and Cas' two main conversations in this episode - Destiel fans should be VERY happy. Destiel fans always annoyed me because they really um...stretched things to an insane level... like, some of the theories and interpretations were so out there that they were annoying [like conspiracy theorists trying to convince me that the president was actually a space-lizard or something]. There was just always a higher level of crazy in that part of the fandom...there still is, I guess, but with this new season, I actually see the destiel ship as blatant enough that the fans of it don't bug me as much, if that makes any sense. It probably doesn't, and I've probably just offended like, half of you, but whatever. I'm just saying that I totally agree with what Misha said at the latest Con...that they don't have to openly state it for it to be canon. And, it's also getting to the point where Cas has fallen far enough and matured as a character enough, that the ship doesn't actually squick me anymore. Though, for those of you who really hate destiel, don't worry - I'm still a gen-girl when it comes to SPN. I get my slash from my other fandoms.)

So, Sam sends the Trans off to be protected by Garth. I kind of want to see that crew, I gotta say. Though, part of me worries that the Trans are going to end up getting Garth killed. I do love the fact that Sam and Dean trust Garth's skills enough to ask him to watch over the Trans. Also, it lends more to the notion that Garth is taking over Bobby's role in Hunting Society, because before when Sam and Dean needed to protect someone, they always brought them to Bobby's. It makes me wonder if Garth is currently building a panic room somewhere. :P

Meanwhile, Cas is zapped back to Heaven. Where we meet Naomi. I'm not sure how I feel about this storyline... Naomi kind of smacks of Zachariah to me. I just don't trust her. Furthermore, it seems that Castiel actually can't hold his tongue around her...because she doesn't seem at all worried about his refusal to report back to her. Also, she's powerful enough to erase Cas' memories of each encounter and then send him back in such a way that his absence goes unnoticed. 

Apparently, I am informed, Naomi is played by Amanda Tapping...which filled everyone else in the room with glee, but filled me with "*Who? *shrug*" So, um, yay Amanda Tapping? I'm sure she's a great actress from...uh...Stargate? Yeah, Stargate. It still doesn't mean that she reminds me less of Zachariah or that I trust her anymore. I don't trust her at all. You know what would make me trust her? IF SHE RESCUED MY BABY ANGEL!! WON'T SOMEONE THINK OF THE BABY ANGELS*?!
*I recognize that Samandriel is not actually a baby, he only looks like one... but I don't care.

So, Cas jumps in the backseat and it's OFF TO SEE THE WORLD!

Man, good myth-arc episode with LOTS of stuff going on.


As usual, let me know you're own thoughts (or point out what I missed) in comments!

And we have to wait two weeks for the next episode :(

Comments

[ramblin_rosie]

The song at the beginning was "We Gotta Get Out of This Place" by the Animals. Highly hilariously appropriate, yes. (And I get the Wolfenstein joke! Never played it myself, but my guy friends did, that and Duke Nukem. I went more for Oregon Trail.)
Poor bb Samandriel. :( :( Maybe rescuing him will be on the agenda next time they run across Crowley.
I have to wonder about the way they brought up Chuck and Metatron. And yeah, if Metatron "took his leave," where did he go?!
I wonder, too, about Cas' version of that last second. I don't doubt that he did want to stay and that he did let go, but is his version any more accurate than Dean's? Either way, though, SO glad Dean actually said what he did and that Cas responded as he did. Not sure whether the abandonment issues will come into play, but he did need to hear that a) it genuinely wasn't his fault and b) failing to save someone isn't necessarily a personal failure. It would be nice to see someone fill the role for him that he and Sam filled for Bobby without knowing it, but considering that the universe is out to get Sam and Dean, it probably won't happen. :(
Yes, Amanda Tapping was on Stargate (Col. Samantha Carter, who rocks), and she was also the lead on Sanctuary. She is a good actress; that was just a very short scene. :D And you're probably not wrong.
I probably had some other rambling thought to offer, but it's stupid o'clock and I'm just hanging on to find out whether I can hand off a delayed project to someone in a more sensible time zone (perils of working on European time in the US!), so I'll quit.

[ashkiryn.livejournal.com]

Ooh, maybe instead of Chuck being God, Chuck is actually Metatron. :P

[ramblin_rosie]

Y'know, that thought did cross my mind....

[hells-half-acre.livejournal.com]

I've seen this theory floating around elsewhere. Very interesting indeed, and would satisfy those (like myself) who prefer not to think of Chuck as God.

[ashkiryn.livejournal.com]

They are, after all, both the "scribes", you know?

[hells-half-acre.livejournal.com]

Exactly! I think this is my new favourite theory... we'll see if it gets Kripke'd...or, um, Carved?

[ashkiryn.livejournal.com]

Lol, I'm gonna be right there with you. It'd be neat if they did the Chuck/Metatron thing like they did with Trickster/Gabriel.

[hells-half-acre.livejournal.com]

The song at the beginning was "We Gotta Get Out of This Place" by the Animals. Highly hilariously appropriate, yes.

That's right! It was great.

(And I get the Wolfenstein joke! Never played it myself, but my guy friends did, that and Duke Nukem. I went more for Oregon Trail.)

Yay! I don't know Oregon Trail, but yeah, very familiar with Wolfenstein, Duke Nukem, and Doom and such... though I sucked at all of them.

And yeah, if Metatron "took his leave," where did he go?!

Exactly! Maybe Dean was on the right track last season and Metatron is actually someone they can find.

It would be nice to see someone fill the role for him that he and Sam filled for Bobby without knowing it, but considering that the universe is out to get Sam and Dean, it probably won't happen. :(

You'll have to forgive me for being dense here, but I'm not sure what role you mean... like... um, sons? People who he regularly saves?

I probably had some other rambling thought to offer, but it's stupid o'clock and I'm just hanging on to find out whether I can hand off a delayed project to someone in a more sensible time zone (perils of working on European time in the US!)

Ah time-zones. At least you don't live in the PST zone. I find it's the most ridiculous timezone for doing anything with anyone else in the world. :P

[ramblin_rosie]

Sons, sort of--I'm thinking mainly of the scene in "Death's Door" where Bobby finally confronts the memory of his dad telling him "You break everything you touch" and counters with the fact that Sam and Dean grew up heroes. Granted, that has as much or more to do with their own character and with the way John raised them, but Bobby *didn't break them* and ended up helping more often than not. I don't know quite how that would translate for Dean's belief that he fails everyone who matters to him, but it would sure be nice for him to have something similar.

[hells-half-acre.livejournal.com]

Ah, okay, I completely understand...and I agree! I'm not sure how that would translate to Dean either, but yes, he definitely needs that. Just some proof that he hasn't failed everyone that he cares about.

[ashkiryn.livejournal.com]

This episode just FILLED ME WITH ALL OF THE SQUEE. It's probably ousted "What's Up, Tiger Mommy?" as my favorite so far this season. And that episode is my favorite mainly because of Kevin Tran's mom, and part of why I loved this episode so much is that SHE'S BACK AND STILL BEING A BAMF!!!!!!!!!!! <33333333333333 Seriously, she's filling a void that Ellen's death left in my heart, and I adore this woman to pieces. (Also, according to TV tropes, her name is Linda. *shrugs* Don't hold me to the accuracy of this.)

And of course, KEVIN, MY BABY, YOU'RE BACK! YOU'RE NOT EXACTLY OKAY, BECAUSE YEESH, YOUR THUMB, BUT YOU'RE ALIVE AND RELATIVELY OKAY!!!!!!!!!!!!! <3333333333333333

And best of all: CAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAS!!!!!!!!!!! YOU'RE OKAY! BEING MANIPULATED BY MYSTERIOUS FORCES (I DON'T TRUST NAOMI EITHER, FTR), BUT YOU'RE BACK AND OKAY AND WITH THE WINCHESTERS!!!!!!! I'VE BEEN SO FUCKING WORRIED! <3333333333333

And by the way, I'm totally right there with you---I was completely SHOCKED that Dean ACTUALLY OPENED UP TO SAM AND TOLD HIM THE TRUTH. Like, that was so freaking HUGE. WHAT. WHAT. WHAT. DEAN. Did...Garth actually have an impact on you last episode?! But awwwwwwwwwwww, Dean&Sam brotherly bonding <333333333333

Also, ohhhhhhh yes. My Destiel heart was very satisfied by this episode. :P Dean/Cas bonding, awwwwww <333333333333 and Cas actually calling Dean out <33333333333 (Although, why in the hell were you surprised Dean was blaming himself, Cas? This is how Dean operates, and pretty much always has.) And I'm relieved to recognize that a lot of Dean's weird, off behavior is finally confirmed as being his guilt over Cas (I mean, I suspected that, but like you, I feared something nefarious was afoot, and that Dean purposefully let go for some reason. However, I'm relieved that this wasn't the case....not that it really makes a difference to Dean, because he took the guilt and responsibility anyway *smacks him*). I know there's still plenty of time for Dean to fuck up, or for SOMEONE to fuck up, if not Dean, or for Benny to turn out Ruby-evil or something, so for now, I just wanna bask in these relatively happy moments, okay? XD

I'm disappointed they're seemingly dropping the crazy!Cas storyline too...unless if this Naomi person is blocking it somehow, so that Cas can function in the role she wants to get a mole in with the Winchesters? Are angels searching for the Word of God on angels?? I mean, Purgatory isn't exactly supposed to be EASY to get into...so if Naomi and her ~resources~ could bust Cas out of Purgatory and brain bleach Cas, why couldn't she also be blocking the crazy flow? I dunno, these are just my speculations.

Anyway, yeah, Dean, thanks for ONCE AGAIN breaking my heart. Not like you haven't broken it enough times, goddamn it. ;;;;;;

*huggles my boys fiercely* *and throw the baby angel and Garth in there for good measure*

Also, I would completely join you on the Samandriel/Adam ship---it certainly would make me as uncomfortable as the other, most popular Adam/angel ship: Michael/Adam. Ugh. Nope, Baby Angel/Baby Winchester works out muuuuuuuch better. ;P

[hells-half-acre.livejournal.com]

(Also, according to TV tropes, her name is Linda. *shrugs* Don't hold me to the accuracy of this.)

This is also what SuperWiki called her, so I'm assuming that it's correct! And yes, she is awesome! :)

KEVIN, MY BABY, YOU'RE BACK! YOU'RE NOT EXACTLY OKAY, BECAUSE YEESH, YOUR THUMB, BUT YOU'RE ALIVE AND RELATIVELY OKAY!!!

It was his pinkie finger so not that bad!! And Cas will eventually fix it, I'm sure!!

Like, that was so freaking HUGE. WHAT. WHAT. WHAT. DEAN. Did...Garth actually have an impact on you last episode?! But awwwwwwwwwwww, Dean&Sam brotherly bonding

I also think that it had to do with Sam telling Dean to move-on or he would. Dean may have actually realized that he needed to stop putting all his issues on Sam and maybe talk about them?!?! This could be the biggest miracle ever in Supernatural. :P

I know there's still plenty of time for Dean to fuck up, or for SOMEONE to fuck up, if not Dean, or for Benny to turn out Ruby-evil or something, so for now, I just wanna bask in these relatively happy moments, okay? XD

Bask away, my friend.

I'm disappointed they're seemingly dropping the crazy!Cas storyline too...unless if this Naomi person is blocking it somehow, so that Cas can function in the role she wants to get a mole in with the Winchesters?

Hmm, I don't know. I don't think I like this theory...mainly because I kind of feel like it's too easy a cop out. I'd actually rather the truth be that Cas has just figured out how to handle the crazy.

Also, I would completely join you on the Samandriel/Adam ship---it certainly would make me as uncomfortable as the other, most popular Adam/angel ship: Michael/Adam. Ugh. Nope, Baby Angel/Baby Winchester works out muuuuuuuch better. ;P

Oh man, yeah, agreed. I don't ship ships that involve dub-con or non-con, and angel possession is a form of dub-con at the very least. So, Michael/Adam, Castiel/Jimmy, and DEFINITELY Sam/Lucifer all completely squick me.

[ashkiryn.livejournal.com]

Huh, it looked like his thumb. Oh well, I wasn't paying that close of attention....I'm not a fan of gore/violence either... :P

I think it is indeed the biggest miracle of Supernatural that has yet happened. Dean is actually LISTENING to Sam, and they are talking about EMOTIONS, and they're not in a life or death situation! See, boys, doesn't it feel kind of nice to do this? XD But it's like how you were saying in your recaps of seasons 4 and especially 5, in how the dynamic of the brothers needing to change, and that Dean didn't really get that until the end of season 5 with Sam sacrificing himself...now, Sam tells Dean something's gotta give in their relationship, and Dean is actually listening and actively trying to do so! Or something more coherent like that. My brain is tired at the moment. :P

*is basking*

*shrugs* I was mainly just thinking out loud, and as I was typing that comment last night, it just occured to me, so I also put it down.

Also agreed. Plus...the fact that the only other vessel we've seen Michael take is Adam's DAD, so....that doesn't help with the mental images AT ALL. :/

[hells-half-acre.livejournal.com]

now, Sam tells Dean something's gotta give in their relationship, and Dean is actually listening and actively trying to do so! Or something more coherent like that. My brain is tired at the moment. :P

That was perfectly coherent and I agree completely. I mean, this ACTUALLY shows logical character growth, which is just awesome.

I was mainly just thinking out loud, and as I was typing that comment last night, it just occured to me, so I also put it down.

Fair enough! It's easier to think about things once you see them written down. :)

Plus...the fact that the only other vessel we've seen Michael take is Adam's DAD, so....that doesn't help with the mental images AT ALL. :/

Ugh, so true. I mean, not to judge people who LIKE that ship of stuff, of course, I just don't. :P

[ashkiryn.livejournal.com]

Our boys are growing up, I am so proud. *wipes away a tear* :P

Oh no, totally not judging the people who do like the ships. I was just trying to say that it really doesn't help MY mental images. I mean, I can read incest. I'm not particularly a fan of it, but I can read Sam/Dean stuff (and theoretically them with Adam, though I haven't touched that one yet). But I just can't handle parent/child incest. I just can't. To me, it is the line that I can't cross over. The squick that out-squicks all other squicks.

So, totally no offense meant to the likers of John-Wincest or Michael/Adam. Really, I have some weird 'ships' under my belt, so I have no room to talk. I just don't ship them, either. :)

[hells-half-acre.livejournal.com]

Oh don't worry! I didn't think you were judging people...I was mainly concerned that my disgusted "ugh" would make it look like *I* was judging people. :P

[liliaeth]

Is it bad that as soon as the ep was over, I instantly had a fic playing through my head, (that I'll probably never write) about Samandriel escaping and getting helped by the cops/army/whatever who help him recover?

[hells-half-acre.livejournal.com]

There is nothing bad about that!!Someone needs to rescue my baby...or he needs to rescue himself!!

[percysowner.livejournal.com]

I too am unhappy about nobody rescuing or even remembering Adam. I mean Dean can bond with Benny the huggable vampire after a year in Purgatory, but Sam couldn't bond with his own brother Adam after 180 years suffering in the Cage together? I'll read your Samandriel and Adam fics, they deserve someone to care about them or even remember they should be rescued.

I'm really deeply unhappy that Sam's mental state is yet again, being totally ignored in favor of Dean's guilt of the month and Cas's I wanted to pay penance, so shut up all you people he's suffered enough. I mean I know Cas was never going to have to actually be redeemed on screen for his actions, but this just leaves me flat. And Sam doesn't even get to have served penance because Cas took it away and we weren't permitted to see it during season seven and I'm ticked.

I liked the Trans. I still enjoy Crowley, although I preferred Crowley's evil to be off screen and I loved his changing Hell to be a long queue to frustrate people as opposed to actual torture.

I don't know that they said Chuck was dead so much as they implied again that he is God. I liked Chuck and I don't want him to be God. We have had enough fluffing of the Judeo/Christian God while trashing all others on the show. They can just keep Chuck MIA or have him come back deprophetized.

[hells-half-acre.livejournal.com]

but Sam couldn't bond with his own brother Adam after 180 years suffering in the Cage together?

In my headcanon, Sam and Adam didn't interact in the cage. Sam was tortured by Alistair, while Adam was kept safe by Michael. I don't think Michael was actually that evil, as to torture Adam when he was a helpless victim. (Michael STILL could have tortured Sam in anger, I suppose, but I think it's telling that Sam only seemed to have Lucifer-associated hallucinations upon return. If the angels can manipulate reality inside the cage, then I picture Lucifer turning it into a torture centre for Sam, and Michael turning the other half into a heaven for Adam...and the two never meet.

Now, of course, that's not to say that I don't think Dean and Sam should feel BAD about not trying to rescue Adam. Of course, the problem is that they can't - Castiel's been too busy or not powerful enough since S6 and Death flat out refused to do Dean any other favours.

The thing that gets me is that it would actually be pretty easy for the writers to come up with an excuse as to why Adam doesn't NEED to be rescued. Like, instead of Death making Dean chose a brother - he could say that Adam isn't actually in the cage... that he was killed before the final battle and sent back up to heaven. It wouldn't be beyond the realm of reason - when Dean showed up and spoke with Michael, Michael said that Adam couldn't hear him or was far away or something...that could have easily meant that Michael took the vessel and then returned the soul to heaven. (Personally, I think this is also what's happened to Jimmy at some point...speaking of characters no one ever thinks of anymore.)

And Sam doesn't even get to have served penance because Cas took it away and we weren't permitted to see it during season seven and I'm ticked.

I disagree. I don't think Cas "took away Sam's penance" - Sam doesn't actually have to suffer the rest of his life in order to have successfully served his penance. He suffered enough, and I think he deserves now to be free of it... that doesn't negate it, because he has the memories of suffering and more importantly, he has the act of heroism that he feels redeemed him.

So, I don't think Sam's mental state is being ignored in favour of Dean or Cas's... I think that they've actually done a really great job at showing all three of their mental states. What ticks me off is how the writers wrote themselves into a corner with Sam's soul-damage and then didn't properly explain how they got out of that corner... I just want an explanation for how Sam's upright, I don't mind that he is... or an explanation as to why Cas' is suddenly sane, I don't care that he is. Though, I suppose, since my theory was that Cas was mostly playing crazy to sort out his emotions...that Cas may have just worked through the crazy and de-insaned himself. :P

I don't know that they said Chuck was dead so much as they implied again that he is God. I liked Chuck and I don't want him to be God. We have had enough fluffing of the Judeo/Christian God while trashing all others on the show. They can just keep Chuck MIA or have him come back deprophetized.

I think they're pretty harsh on the Judeo/Christian God too... even if they don't make him eat eye-ball soup.

That being said, I don't think you HAVE to believe that Chuck was God. Prophets ascend after their work is completed. And Chuck was a VERY different prophet to Kevin. I think Chuck's prophet-ness was for a unique purpose, he served that purpose, and then he ascended, so that the next prophet would awaken on a if-needed basis. At the very most, you could even just think that God temporarily used Chuck as a vessel (he's only in a white shirt, for instance, for the last paragraph that he writes, I believe...though I could be wrong about that.)

I've seen some theories that Chuck might actually be Metatron. So, yeah, plenty of theories that allow you to believe that the Judeo/Christian God is MIA nearly this entire time.

[ashkiryn.livejournal.com]

Characters that no one ever thinks of and are forgotten: Adam, Jimmy, Samandriel, and Daphne. That I can think of, at least.

And yeah, I agree that Jimmy's soul went into Heaven at some point...preferably either when Cas was smited by Raphael or by Lucifer. At least, that's what I'd really, really like to believe.

[hells-half-acre.livejournal.com]

nd yeah, I agree that Jimmy's soul went into Heaven at some point...preferably either when Cas was smited by Raphael or by Lucifer. At least, that's what I'd really, really like to believe.

SAME! :)

[borgmama1of5.livejournal.com]

I am a little surprised you didn't say anything about what bothered me about this episode--the disconnect between how angry Sam was at the end of the previous episode and how mellow he was in this one. How did he go from one state of mind to the other?

*Goes to look for fic that explains it*

[hells-half-acre.livejournal.com]

I guess to me there wasn't a disconnect. Sam was angry at the end of last week's episode, but then he said his piece "move on, or I will" and Dean obviously too him serious and amended his behaviour - or at least was obviously attempting to. (I don't think it's a coincidence that Dean was suddenly so open with Sam about his emotional state.)

Arguments don't necessarily have to last forever. Now, that's not to say that Sam's not still annoyed by the whole Benny-thing, or hurt by what Dean said to him, but yeah - they've said what they needed to say about that, and now it's the part of the fight that's about amending your behaviour to show that you're sorry.

[kaybee751.livejournal.com]

I looked up "on ice" and one meaning is "Away from public notice or activity" - so that's promising, maybe?

Maybe the antiChrist in Australia will rescue Samandriel and Adam. It'll be one big happy forgotten characters reunion :)

[hells-half-acre.livejournal.com]

Maybe the antiChrist in Australia will rescue Samandriel and Adam. It'll be one big happy forgotten characters reunion :)

Haha! I love it.

Until we see a body and angel-wings burnt into the floor, there's always hope, I suppose.

[fatal-scribbles.livejournal.com]

Can I just say I would so be on board to read Samandriel/Adam. They're both just so adorable and abandoned and they angst oh so prettily.

[hells-half-acre.livejournal.com]

Yay! Ours is an adorable but heartbreaking ship, cast adrift on forgotten seas. :P

[alcanis-ivennil.livejournal.com]

My heart simpkly broke for Samandriel. Poor innocent bb! I want Cas to save him and heal him and help him through his inevitable guilt and angst. Please don't kill him, show.
Ugh. I thought Crowley was going to kill him because he "outlived his usefuness". Thank Chuck he didn't, even if it means further torture.


I love Crowley but the writers make him go too far. He's basically signed his own death warrant. Pretty sure he won't survive the season finale, which is a shame because he's sassy and awesome and sexy.

[hells-half-acre.livejournal.com]

Well, Crowley's currently lasted longer than any other Supernatural villain (except Meg), so it would be his due if he did bite it... don't know who they'd replace him with though, if they really are going for 10 seasons.

Poor Samandriel. I REALLY hope that someone rescues him eventually - I guess it's a good sign that they didn't kill him right off...it might mean they're planning something else for him later. I just hope it's a good thing and not a bad thing.

[alcanis-ivennil.livejournal.com]

Well, it's an even-numbered season. So far all of those ended with soem great evil getting free, so I guess they won't be able to shut Hell's gates... or they will, but the Cage will open. And the boys will be out for a bit of revenge. I'd basically sell my soul for a corrupted, insane Michael. He wasn't given enough screen time and having him gone dark side would be really interesting.

I really hope Samandriel survives and we don't have to watch another torture session. Cas should rescue him.

[liliaeth]

Really? I thought Crowley went too far from the start, but especially when he had those shape shifter babies killed back in s6

[marlowe78.livejournal.com]

Hello there

Oh yes, I feel with you about Samandriel. Poor guy! He screamed so well... and damn, now I sound like Crowley! But he did! He managed what few people on screen can do: scream like he really meant it. Poor little angel - I hope the strange Boss-angel will save him! But maybe he has a purpose, being kept in torture? I mean... they ARE angels, and angels are not nice, right?


It's nice to see that she's conscious and up and about, and being possessed by Crowley that one time hasn't damaged her beyond repair.

Totally agreed! She's an awesome mom! I like that she went ahead and called the Winchesters, even though they nearly killed her (well, Dean nearly did... Note how she called SAM? ;-) )

There were no Dean and Cas hugs either

For a moment, I thought Dean would. But he was sure too puzzled and kinda unbelieving - because he knew that something was wrong. Me, too. Just saying :-D Only, I have the benefit of actually KNOWING now, the Winchesters don't (and Cas neither, as I understood).

I love how it's nearly FIVE YEARS LATER and they're only now realizing that Chuck is gone... oh god, there's little hope for Samandriel, is there?

And thank the writers that they ACTUALLY mentioned him! I'm still holding up hope that there will be some Adam name-dropping ....
Maybe he'll come back, all very, VERY angry? Coooooool idea...

Also, that German-looking dude was very German-looking, my god.

Actually, as a German, I can't say that he looked like most Germans I see around here. Neither in my town/city/place I live, nor on TV.
He looked more ... well, like a stereotype-Dutchman. Or maybe Swedish (wasn't there something about "some guy from Sweden?)? Though the Swedes I know don't look like that either.

just, ugh. I guess this isn't a complaint about this episode though, it's a complaint about S7.

I get that. There are a lot of things dropped along the way, but for that one, I still have a bit of hope ;-) I mean, Cas being all mighty-winged looked a LITTLE frazzled, right? He might be still a bit damaged.

Cas breaks the tablet in two -

And that looked so cool!

but, I suppose this serves me right for being so petty, because I mainly just wanted that so that all the high-horse "Dean can do no wrong" Dean!girls would have something to choke on. Like I said, petty.

*sticks out tongue*

I'd never say Dean can do no wrong - he does it all the time, which is why I like him. Wouldn't have minded if he had done SOMETHING not right, but actually, this way it makes a lot of sense. Because with all his faults, one thing Dean is is loyal to a fault. (which is why he'd not be able to kill Benny, but if it came to it, he'd still chose Sam and maybe he WOULD be able to do it... or at least let Sam win)
So even though I love Dean's faults (and yes, I get angry about them, but I'm not THERE, so I can be angry in my warm home ;-) ), that's one thing he'd not do - leave Cas ON PURPOSE.

Also, I like how this season is really shaping up to look like it's all about perspective. Dean's perspective of Purgatory and how it ended - and Sam's of his year alone. Huh... let's see where they go.

It still doesn't mean that she reminds me less of Zachariah or that I trust her anymore.

Course not! She's untrustworthy. At least as much as that witch (who reminded me of Meg, uncannily... huh, you think Meg's stored away were Samandriel is kept? Maybe the two of them have to work together or something? ... would make for interesting fanfic, especially if they forego any kind sex ;-) ))

See you the week after next week (Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo! Stupid holiday. Seriously, who needs that?)

Oh, also my conclusion about this:

Liked it :-)

I actually was surprised that I liked Cas again! I fell kind out of love for him, and I'm HAPPY that he managed to crawl back, warts and all. *hugs him* He's still family, right? you're allowed to be angry about family.


So, Sam sends the Trans off to be protected by Garth. I kind of want to see that crew, I gotta say.

Hee, me too. I think it would do them good, learn about things like hunting from Garth and at the same time, learn a bit more about hunters from him. Maybe it'll help them, on the long run.

[hells-half-acre.livejournal.com]

But maybe he has a purpose, being kept in torture? I mean... they ARE angels, and angels are not nice, right?

It's true. It's hard to believe Crowley's theory that no one would notice him missing...all the other angels we've seen who have been outside of heaven (Gabriel, Balthazar) either had their absences noticed or had to face their own death in order to disappear.

That being said, I really hope that the angels aren't letting him be tortured. I want him to be good, and I don't trust the Naomi angel, who is obviously the one with the plan this time around.

Maybe he'll come back, all very, VERY angry? Coooooool idea...

At this point, if Adam IS in the cage and NOT being protected by Michael - then yeah, he'll definitely come back angry if her were to come back...perhaps as a demon already.

I'd never say Dean can do no wrong - he does it all the time, which is why I like him. Wouldn't have minded if he had done SOMETHING not right, but actually, this way it makes a lot of sense. Because with all his faults, one thing Dean is is loyal to a fault.

It's true - and obviously, since you acknowledge his faults, you aren't the kind of Dean!girl that I was talking about. ;)

But yeah, this storyline DOES make a lot of sense, because Dean wouldn't have chosen himself over Cas - or Benny over Cas, unless he was coerced/blackmailed somehow... but from what we saw of Benny already, I had a feeling that wouldn't happen.

Also, I like how this season is really shaping up to look like it's all about perspective. Dean's perspective of Purgatory and how it ended - and Sam's of his year alone. Huh... let's see where they go.

Yeah, I'm really looking forward to seeing the truth about Sam's year alone too.

huh, you think Meg's stored away were Samandriel is kept? Maybe the two of them have to work together or something?

Well that would be interesting!!

Actually, as a German, I can't say that he looked like most Germans I see around here. Neither in my town/city/place I live, nor on TV.
He looked more ... well, like a stereotype-Dutchman. Or maybe Swedish (wasn't there something about "some guy from Sweden?)? Though the Swedes I know don't look like that either.

Yeah, actually, he was from Sweden - my bad, it was late. I just meant..um, "Norse" looking. He's sort of like the stereotype, you know? I've never met any Germans who have looked like him either... though, he kind of reminded me a bit of Arnold Schwarzenegger...who of course doesn't look like the typical Austrian either. He was like a cross between Arnold and this REALLY Scandinavian-looking guy that I used to know. :P

Glad you liked the episode! It'll be interesting to see where they go from here. :)