hells_half_acre: (Sam's a badass)
[personal profile] hells_half_acre
Alright...now, the only vampire that I seem to be able to stand....



I really hope there aren't many clothes changes in this episode. I'm trying to conserve paper. They didn't change at all last episode.
-Update: And there weren't!

Interview with Dick Roman! Man, he's so creepy.

High-Fructose Corn-Syrup... so bad for you... and in everything in America. Do you know, I've really never had a good meal in America. I mean, it's been edible and alright, but never...great. And a lot of the time it's been absolutely disgusting. I try not to hold it against the country though - I probably have just had bad luck. Mind you, some items that I buy in Canada, I can't stand the taste of in the states because they make them differently or something. It's truly bizarre. The best food is in Europe though, I have to say...though, I've also had some truly delicious food in Asia.

I'm ignoring dialogue while I type this because it's just plot stuff... BORING Hahaha.

Kevin! Kevin is really haunted by that damn tablet.

"My sources tell me you're applying to Princeton - letter of recommendation like that from a man like me. Done."
"I can't do it."

- Bless you for having principles, Kevin.

And the "we've kidnapped your mother" trick... actually, it's kind of interesting that the whole "I was kidnapped thing' didn't come up in 8x02.

Dean: "Okay, I have read this more times than the playboy I found in Dad's duffle."
Anna: "Anna Nicole?"
Dean: "Anna Nicole. Ah, the good they die young, huh?"

*Sam looks awkward*
- I love how disturbed Sam is that he and Dean jerked off to the same playboy...that their dad obviously also jerked off to, come to think of it. Man, first Annie and now this magazine - what's with the sudden theme of getting off with the same women. :P

You know, I have different names for shirts than I put in If Clothes Could Talk. For instance, the shirt that Dean is wearing, I call his "Swan Song" shirt, because that was the first time he ever wore it. Personally, if I watched my brother die, I wouldn't be able to wear any of those clothes again and I'd probably have to get rid of them altogether.

Sam: "Look, I'm all for killing Dick, I'm just saying, what then? What about the rest of the leviathan, are they all going to drop dead..."
Dean: "Maybe."
Sam: "Maybe? Maybe is good enough for you?"
Dean: "One problem at a time, alright."
Sam: "Okay, but it's not a crazy idea to figure out what the catch is before we go crashing the gate."
Dean: "Maybe this is the catch, God's not telling us every detail. The word is from God, I'm not sure how much better it's going to get."

- They both have a point - obviously, we know now that Sam is right, there was a catch, in that there is a certain blast radius that you have to stay out of. But, that being said, there's no possible way that they could research enough to know that - there isn't any other information out there. If there was, they'd have found it by now.
- Here's a question for everyone: Do you think they WILL bring back the leviathans at all? I think that, unfortunately, they were a largely failed monster - but, that being said, not ever addressing them again would be kind of a major plot hole. Opinions?

Dean: "Hey Bobby. How're you feeling?"
Bobby: "Stronger than ever."

- I said it at the time, and I'll say it again here - I absolutely love how Jensen acts in this scene, because it's spot on for what it's like to live with someone who suffers from extreme mood swings. He's purposefully keeping his own mood light and even in an attempt to keep the other person's mood light and even, even though he's extremely tense and basically constantly prepared for a fight. (for the record, I no longer live with someone who suffers from extreme mood swings - and the person who used to is all better now and is extremely nice and pleasant and even tempered).

Bobby: "...You gotta bleed an alpha"
Dean: "But they're all dead. I mean, every one we found we rounded up for Crowley and then Cas whammyed them all."

- This is the thing. Cas didn't HAVE to whammy them all. At the time when he supposedly did, he was secretly working with Crowley - so I always just assumed that he just TOLD Sam and Dean that he killed all the monsters, but that he didn't really. It's kind of funny to me that he actually did. :P

Bobby: "Well then make this Cas' problem too"
Dean: "Cas ain't exactly in the problem solving mode, Bobby-"

- I do like that for all Dean is pissed off at the whole Cas-situation, he is still protective of him. He doesn't want to drag him into something that he might not be able to handle.

Dean: "Little FYI, Bobby's officing out of the john these days."
Sam: "Uh, awkward."

- I just like this. I mean, if you think about it, using the bathroom is probably the only privacy the Winchesters ever have - and now there's a ghost hanging out in there!

Dean: "What do we do about it?"
Sam: "Short of going al-Qaeda on their trucks, there's nothing we can do about it."
*laptop slams shut*
Dean: "Like I said, Bobby's got some ideas."

- Again, I love this, because it really reflects how when you DO have a mood-swingy person living in the house, suddenly all activity revolves around their wishes and the desire to keep them happy.

I like the difference between Sam and Dean and their enemies - and how it's very much embodied by the two different ways Kevin is forced to translate the message. Sam and Dean have him translate it - handwritten, into a school notebook. The leviathans have him type it up on a laptop. I guess in this rewatch I didn't talk much about the corporate-enemy aspect of this season. I actually thought that was a really cool theme and idea... especially since they took it to a level where you can obviously see how much the corporate world controls the lives of the average American - right down to the basics like what you eat. Sam and Dean, I think, might be the actual only blue-collar heroes on TV at the moment... and I think it's kind of neat that in a year where the 1% thing became such a big deal, Sam and Dean are going up against corporate America.

Crowley: "So, that's what all the rumble rumble was about. Who translated it for you?"
Dean: "Nevermind. Are you going to give us the blood or not?"

- Uh, S8 SPOILERS: It's interesting, because Crowley must already know where the tablet about the demons is - yet, he obviously hasn't dug it up yet (or chipped it out of it's rock coating) or else HE would have awakened the prophet.

Crowley: "Last. After you've got all the other components. Most difficult: the angel part, I'm assuming. Given their role in their little apocalypse, I can't imagine the choir boys upstairs are wetting their vestments to do you - what's the word - a solid. Unless of course, you have an angel up your sleeve."
Dean: "Well, that would be convenient, but, uh, no."

- The first time I watched this, I was sure that Crowley already, at least, had an inkling that Castiel was still alive - but in the next episode it really appears as though he doesn't.

Crowley: "...managed to make good his prison break before Cas went nuclear on the place."
Dean: "And you know this how?"
Crowley: "Keep your friends close, your enemies blah blah. Needless to say, I keep tabs...."

- Again, I can't believe that Castiel ACTUALLY went nuclear on the place. :P
- Secondly, I really love how Crowley doesn't even bother finishing the phrase.

*Crowley disappears*
Dean: "Okay, where? Jackass."
*Name burns into table*
Sam: "Hoople, North Dakota."
Dean: "Piece of paper would have worked."

- I do love this because it's really unnecessarily dramatic, and therefore hilarious. It kind of reminds me of John Watson in Sherlock talking to Mycroft, "you know, I do have a phone." :P

Sam: "The stronger he gets, the closer he comes to going full vengeful spirit. That's reality. We need to talk about what we're going to do with him."
- I guess this is the thing, suddenly the show is giving us ghost lore that we didn't have before to justify what's happening to Bobby. But they haven't really justified how he went from "help the boys" to "get revenge".

Dean: "Do with him?"
Sam: "Yeah"
Dean: "Three weeks ago, you were talking about how this could work. And now you want to go Kevorkian on his ass?"

- I think Dean is clinging to the remnants of Bobby (again, if we go from the lore in 4x15, that might be BECAUSE of the flask)...but the Bobby he knew is dead.

Sam: "I'm just saying the lore doesn't have a single real life example of Casper the friendly ghost, it's all basically poltergeist until a Hunter comes along..."
Dean: "Yeah, well the lore sucks."
Sam: "I'm talking pure hatred Dean, no humanity..."

- It does sound like Sam's been reading up on the lore whenever he knows Bobby (and probably therefore Dean) isn't around.

Ah, the stoned customers....

Dean: "Hey, hey, this one says natural, that means it's safe, right?"
Sam: "I hate to break it to you, but corn-syrup IS natural, technically."

- This is why you can't trust labels, kids. Same goes with "Green" products.

Dean: "Well then what the hell are we supposed to eat?"
*WATER AND BANANAS*

- Water and bananas are often times what I will eat for lunch when I don't feel like eating. :P

So, that actress! I should really learn her name. She was in that episode of Falling Skies that I extraed in...along with Ty Ollson. It's a small Vancouver Film Industry world!

Vampire: "Go to hell"
Edgar: "No, my neighbourhood is worse than that."

- Is it though? I mean, take away the monsters killing each other and it's actually a very lovely old temperate rainforest. Whereas Hell is...well, either hanging from meathooks or it's standing in lines. I guess standing in lines isn't that bad.

Dean: "I can't do this. I can't live on rabbit food. I'm a warrior!"
Sam: "Dean, you'll be fine."
Dean: "You don't know that."

- What do you think the warriors lived on before they killed something? Also, I love the fact that Dean's arguing this point with SAM, his HUGE younger brother that seems to live on a steady diet of "rabbit food."

Dean: "Well, if we're bum rushing the alpha, then we're going to need dead man's blood, which means a mogue... or..."
Sam: "Or what?"
Dean: "Forget the morgue. We are swimming in vamp poison."

- It IS pretty handy to have an entire population of people who are filled with vamp poison.

Dean: "Hey! Hold out your arm, we need your blood!"
Sam: "Dude!"
*guy holds out his arm*

- I just find this whole scene hilarious. I love how Dean just has needles in his pocket.

Stoned!Dude: "This is for Hurricane Katrina you said?"
Dean: "yes, yes I did."

- I love that the guy names a disaster that happened...what 7 years ago our time, 8 years ago SPN time?

I love how the stoned dude tries to follow Sam and Dean's conversation...I also love how Sam and Dean just talk to each other like the guy isn't there, while simultaneously being TOWERING OVER HIM while SITTING. I mean, geez, Jensen and Jared are tall men.

And the cop making his siren sing along to "Why can't we be friends" is just hilarious.

Sam: "Could have been a monestary. Monks get up at 4am to pray."
Dean: "Ugh, can't get laid, can't sleep in. It's a friggin' tragedy."

- I agree with Dean.

Dean: "Alright, here you go. 10 ccs of Vamptonite.... it's a thing."
- Just like Jefferson Starships, I love the way Dean names things and then insists that that's what they should be called.

Sam: "Alright, if we're not back by dawn, call this number. Jody Mills. She's a friend. She'll help you."
- Yay Sheriff Mills!

Dean: "Hey, you with me?"
Sam: "Yeah"
Dean: "But?"

- I mean, I know it's a given at this point, but I still love how well Dean and Sam know each other.

Sam: "Are you sure you just want to charge in there machetes blazing. Last time it took a dozen hunters to take down the alpha and most of them didn't make it out."
Dean: "Well, you got a better idea?"
*Sam and Dean walk up to house to knock on door*
Dean: "Stupid. Stupid. Stupid."

- I also love how Sam is always like "let's talk to them" - and this is the guy who was supposed to be Lucifer's vessel and destroy the world...really?

Bobby: "Okay, Dean's birthday. Sam's birthday... DAMN IT!...Son of a bitch. My birthday!"
- Probably not the brightest idea, Dean. Maybe you should have picked a more random series of numbers.

Maid: "Everything okay in there? Hello?"
- Personally, if I were a maid in a hotel and there was a ton of violent banging coming from a room. I'd be like "Hmm, I'm going to go get security, rather than walk in there myself and possibly get a chair thrown at my head.

Bobby!Maid: "I just need you a little while. Just 'til I get the bastard."
- I do like this actress and how she suddenly walks differently and has a very lower even voice when she talks once she's possessed.

Alpha!Vamp: "The Winchesters. I'm intrigued."
- I do like the Alpha!Vamp, despite my hatred for vampires... right now, I attribute it to how awesome Rick Worthy is...but it probably also has to do with how well he's written. So, yeah...maybe all hope is not lost for my hatred of vampires - at least when it comes to Supernatural.

Sam: "We're here to talk. That's it."
Alpha!Vamp: "Now that my guys have taken my blades and your syringes of tainted blood. Is that what you mean?"
Dean: "Well, we figured you might hold a grudge."
Alpha!Vamp: "And why would I? Because you captured me, tortured me, and sold me to the King of Hell?"
Dean: "That was more our grandpa."
*Vamp SMACKS Dean into table*
Dean: "Thank you, that was awesome."

- I love this exchange...and Dean's response to being bashed into the table. I wonder what would have happened had the Winchesters truly gone in unharmed (not that they would have, of course.) Also, if I were the Alpha, I wouldn't hold a grudge about the capturing, torture, and selling thing - because the fact that they got close enough to capture him, means that they got close enough to kill him...so it's actually a good thing that they captured him, since that way he could escape and live another day. But I suppose that's being a bit pollyanna about it, and the fact remains that Hunters are the enemies - even if their previous mission meant that they were actually a bit more lenient than normal.

Sam: "The plague! We know what it is! What do you know about leviathan?"
Alpha!Vamp: "A bit."
Sam: "Did you know that they're poisoning the food supply?"
Alpha!Vamp: "Roman didn't mention that when we met for dinner last fall. We made lots of plans. We are on excellent terms, he and I."
Dean: "You sure about that?"

- I like the idea of Roman schmoozing the monsters just as much as the humans in order to get what he wants. I also like how Sam just barrels through and doesn't let how badly things are going deter him from trying to get through to the Alpha. I also love the Alpha's face at Dean's last line there.

Sam: "He said you'd all live together didn't he? You really believe him? You think your children are dying by accident? There's pesticide in the formula!"
Alpha!Vamp: "It suits you to think so, you need me on your side."
Sam: "We're not the ones burning from the inside out. Think about it, whatever deal he made with you is crap-"

- Again, kudos to Sam. I like how he emphasizes the vampires as the alpha's "children" and the idea that introduces the idea that it's pesticide. Also, I like how you can sort of see the Alpha's gears turning here, because he's like "well, obviously they want me as an ally," and then you can sort of see how he realizes that doesn't necessarily make sense, because Sam and Dean are hunters and should be glad that the vampires are dying.

Alpha!Vamp: "So now you want to prevent the extermination of the vampire race."
Dean: "No. But it beats going down with you."

- Again, just an awesome line I liked. It's interesting to, because hunters have been rather successful against vampires in the Supernatural universe - the boys didn't think they existed in S1 and even John thought they were extinct. So, yeah, really, vampires can't be THAT huge of a problem in the world, even if they have made a slight resurgence.

Alpha!Vamp: "Allan, darling, come."
Dean: "Oh, the creep gets creepier."

- I didn't mention this with Emily (actually, I realize now that I've ignored her part in this episode completely so far in this rewatch) but I find it interesting that the most they'll say is that "virgins are a delicacy"...but even so, vampires are a sexualized monster - the fact that they feed off the neck is kind of part of that. So, even though it's inherent in their purpose that the children can't be touched in a sexual manner - it still feels on some level as if they are. So, basically, I'm agreeing with Dean here, and I'm actually rather amazed that the show "went there."

Alpha!Vamp: "Word of advice, boys: You do not life through centuries of fire and ice and continental divide by jumping to conclusions."
- It's kind of funny, because vampires are supposedly monster+man, but the alpha talks as though he was already there before man arrived on the scene. I'll get into this later, perhaps.
- The above being said, I love the fact that the Alpha is that old.

Dean: "I mean, he's not stupid. Why the hell do you think he locked us in here?"
Sam: "Well, Dean, we're his enemy. I mean, they're like monster-cousins. Who would you give the benefit of the doubt to? Hell, maybe the sucro is poisoning the vamps on accident, maybe they're fix it."
Dean: "I think you've got the oldest monster on earth thinking that he can hold his own because he always has."

- I absolutely love Dean's last line there, because it's...well, it's fuckin' WISE.

Dean: "Hey, you think you can pick a lock with this?"
*Sam gives him a 'bitch please' look*

- Sorry, I just love Sam's "bitch please" look. To me, this tells us that out of the two of them, Sam's actually the better lock-picker than Dean is. Because Dean didn't say "I think I can pick a lock with this", he asked Sam if HE could. It brings my mind all the way back to S2 when they first went to the roadhouse, and it was locked, and Dean said "Do you have the-" and Sam said "of course" and through him a set of lockpicks. And heck, let's go further back to S1 when Dean is tied up in an apple orchard and Sam arrives to save the day, and Dean asks "how did you get here" and Sam says "I stole a car" and Dean smiles and says "that's my boy!" ...oh I have so many lock-pick emotions all of a sudden.

Sam: "But Dean, we gave up all our vamptonite!"
Dean: "Did we?" *takes it out of boot*

- Okay, so, Sam's line is SUCH a whiney little brother line... but Dean's line is almost seductive. I kind of find this exchange hilarious.

*they take out a vampire with the syringe*
Dean: "Wow."
Sam: "Vamptonite."
Dean: "Frickin' vamptonite!"

- I also love how Sam always comes around to calling whatever Dean has named by the name that Dean has given it. :)
- Before they get rid of the additive, they should really stock up on blood.

Alpha!Vamp: "You don't call you don't write, you don't send cookies. Where the hell on your list is fixing our little plague."
Edgar: "Nowhere, we want you to burn like the little roaches you are."
Alpha!Vamp: "Roman said, if I kept quiet, I would get my reward."
Edgar: "And now you get to lay down and die. Nothing personal. Our additive kills the wolves too, the shifters and those disgusting little things that eat corpses. Anything with a taste for human, except us. Mankind is a limited resource after all."
Alpha!Vamp: "They're are seven billion of them."
Edgar: "Only seven."

- Um, just to be pedantic, mankind ISN'T a limited resource. We do this thing called procreation - you may have heard about it, it comes up in American politics a lot for some reason. I mean, my god, we're practically a parasitic plague on this world. I don't think you have to worry about us running out anytime soon... well, except for this climate change problem we've made that tends to kill large swathes of us either in horrifically violent storms (stay safe people!) or by destroying our food/water supply.
- Secondly, seeing as how the additive is already out there. The leviathans may have just cut down on a REALLY large population of monsters - because wolves eat on the full moon (the additive will most likely still be in stores and in people's systems)... and lots of creatures need a steady supply of humans to live. HOWEVER, Shifters? Last time I checked, shifters didn't actually EAT humans - they just went crazy-evil and killed them.

Alpha!Vamp: "We come from you."
Edgar: "Barely."
Alpha!Vamp: "I am the son of Eve."
Edgar: "A pathetic mutt. Hardly one of us. I knew Eve and honestly? Your mommy was a whore."

- The evolution/creation of monsters is interesting, because Eve is the MOTHER of all monsters...but Leviathans are the FIRST monsters...and here the alpha suggests that Vampires came from leviathans (barely), and edgar calls him a mutt. So, are vampires Eve twisting a human? Did Eve also "birth" leviathans? From the fact that Edgar called her a whore and said he knew her - I'm guessing no...that maybe Leviathans and Eve were contemporaries, or that Eve actually came AFTER Leviathans.... anyway, questions that will never be answered.

Alpha!Vamp: "Do you want to do this fight? Or do you want my blood?"
- You gotta hand it to the Alpha, he's been throughly ass-kicked and humilated, but he does try to hang onto SOME dignity.

Alpha!Vamp: "For taking care of Edgar, now go."
Dean: "What about the little boy."
Alpha!Vamp: "Are you joking?"
Dean: "Do we look like your joking. How many kids you got in here, you freak?"
Alpha!Vamp: "At the moment just him.....Emily, help Allen with his coat, he's leaving with Sam and Dean."

- I forget what the source was now, but I remember hearing that this was actually a change to the script that Jared and Jensen made - called down to the writers and actually had them rewrite pages...because originally Sam and Dean were, I guess, just supposed to take the blood and go, and both Jared and Jensen were like: "there is no way that Sam and Dean would leave a little boy there." And I have to say that it was the right call on their part. As much as I like the Alpha... him having the little boy there just creeps my cheese.

Alpha!Vamp: "....Now take it.... What, no thank you? Oh right right, your flesh is crawling. All you really want to do is kill me now, you hate having to wait and come back and try again."
Dean: "Pretty much. I wouldn't leave that head too close to that body for too long."
Alpha!Vamp: "See you next season."
Dean: "Look forward to it."

- I love the idea that there's something primal and instinctual about Sam and Dean's reaction to the alpha - that it might be taking all of their will to walk out of there without trying to kill him.
- I think the "see you next season" is a bit on the nose. Sometimes in climactic dramatic scenes, I don't want it undercut by being reminded that I'm watching a TV show.

Dean: "Let's never do that again. Cops thought we took that kid."
Sam: "As long as they get him back to his folks, I don't care what they thought."
Dean: "We had to jump out a frickin' window, man."

- I guess this is why they leave people on the corner and have them walk to the hospital/police-station on their own.

And Bobby is gone!

Sam: "It's not him, he's not thinking."
- And I think this is the thing. Bobby really did die in 7x10 and Sam has realized that this thing that is left is not Bobby at all - looks like Bobby, knows stuff Bobby knew, but is not Bobby.

Dean: "So what, we just keep going while he's out there like this."
Sam: "Do we have any other option? I mean, it's what he'd want us to do, right?"
Dean: "Yeah, him, and Frank, and Cas if his marbles were in the bag. It's a good thing we've got Crowley in our corner right? Seeing as how it call comes down to him. What could possibly go wrong?"

- And I think Dean is starting to see that Bobby is dead and gone too, because they aren't talking about what Ghost!Bobby would want them to do here - I think they're talking about what BOBBY would want them to do here. And I base that on the fact that Dean just rattles off a list of the dead who would want them to focus on getting rid of the leviathan.
- I also think Cas is hovering in a weird in between place for Dean right now - where Dean isn't quite sure if the Cas he knew is dead or just on vacation. It's hard when someone you love loses their mind, because (like ghost!Bobby) they quite suddenly become a different person, and the person you actually loved is gone. (This is a remarkably different experience than someone becoming a different person over time due to knowledge and experience.)
- I also like how Dean finishes with the depressing reminder that (once again) he and Sam are relying on a DEMON, and hey, WHEN HAS THAT EVER GONE WRONG? (the answer: Always.)



Okay, shorter one, because this was more about plot and less about character than the previous episode (I tend to talk way more when the episode is about character, you may have noticed).

I'm hopefully going to finish this rewatch tomorrow - but I also have to put in a full day's work and my sleeping habits are currenly borked so, we'll see.

IF YOU LIVE IN THE EASTERN PART OF NORTH AMERICA: I HOPE YOU AND YOUR LOVED ONES ALL STAY SAFE! 

Date: 2012-10-30 12:11 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] borgmama1of5.livejournal.com
Sam and Dean were so on the same page at the end of this season--watching them work in tandem was such fun, brought back feels of the pilot, where they just knew what the other was going to do...or the episode where they were arrested and interrogated separately and still gave the exact same story and were simultaneously solving the 'danaschulps' anagram...I so love when they work as a wordless team...probably why I'm having trouble with this season so far :(

Date: 2012-10-30 07:22 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hells-half-acre.livejournal.com
Hmm, that's a good point about them being in sync with each other. And they had been since the moment Sam got his soul back. So, yeah, it makes sense that that might be a point of contention with you in the new season.

Date: 2012-10-30 01:58 pm (UTC)
ext_29986: (Dean - staring into the sun)
From: [identity profile] fannishliss.livejournal.com
In the DC area we seem to be fine. We didn't even lose power! Yay, we were extremely lucky. :)

Date: 2012-10-30 07:25 pm (UTC)

Date: 2012-10-30 06:44 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nanloo.livejournal.com
Sorry to say, with regards to the Leviathans, it is 'out of sight, out of mind'. They kind of worked in season seven because they were doing Dick's bidding. But now that he is dead, what would they be doing? Then one would wonder why Sam felt comfortable 'retiring' knowing that the Leviathans were still out there.

I loved the bench scene. This is probably the first time that Sam and Dean talked 'shop' in front of a civilian who had no idea what the fudge they were talking about. LOL

I hope that before he 'retired', Sam stocked up on Vamptonite.

Why didn't Dean use Mary's birthday as the combo??

Regarding Sam being a better lock picker:
I think that when John taught Dean how to pick locks, it was more of a 'do it this way' kind of approach. But when Dean taught Sam, it was more gentle and Sam picked it up quicker. That made more sense in my head :)

"I also love how Sam always comes around to calling whatever Dean has named by the name that Dean has given it. :)"
Where Dean leads, Sam will follow. Obviously this goes back to their childhood. I can see WeeDean doing stuff for John, and WeeSammy following devotedly behind. But then it could just be me. :)

While we are on the subject of Eve.
Why wasn't the phoenix ash bought up as a way of killing Dick?? Did Bobby use one of the shells on Chad??

Thank you for your concern. Here in my part of Brooklyn, NY, we were not impressed with Sandy. A lot of wind, some rain, no biggie. Right now, it is still windy, but she has gone her way, so long, don't let the door hit your ass as you leave.

Date: 2012-10-30 07:30 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hells-half-acre.livejournal.com
Then one would wonder why Sam felt comfortable 'retiring' knowing that the Leviathans were still out there.

It's true. I was wondering this myself. Like, did he first take down Sucrocorp or did he really just walk away?

Why didn't Dean use Mary's birthday as the combo??

That was John's unofficial go-to, maybe Dean figured that Bobby would guess it before he guessed his own birthday. :P

Why wasn't the phoenix ash bought up as a way of killing Dick?? Did Bobby use one of the shells on Chad??

Who's chad? OH! The leviathan in the basement. He might have. Also, I think they lost their phoenix ash... though, maybe not. Castiel did kill everyone in that diner - probably including the monsters that had taken the phoenix ash away to be destroyed.

Glad that Brooklyn is okay! :)

Date: 2012-10-30 08:32 pm (UTC)
ext_29986: (Dean - staring into the sun)
From: [identity profile] fannishliss.livejournal.com
Re the rest of the Leviathans, I get the impression that there is a bit of a hive mind model going on -- take down Dick, and the rest of them just kind of roam about listlessly or fall down a well or something. I don't think they are a problem anymore. Even the one Dean went up against in Purgatory seemed kind of useless.

Date: 2012-10-30 08:36 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hells-half-acre.livejournal.com
He went up against one in purgatory?

I'm guessing you're right. That maybe without Dick, they just sort of become like shifters, but with a taste for humans... and of course, MUCH more powerful. Plus, they keep eating each other when they get pissed off and we don't know how/if they reproduce - so they could very well take themselves out while they fight for leadership.

Date: 2012-10-30 09:59 pm (UTC)
ext_29986: (Felicia Day)
From: [identity profile] fannishliss.livejournal.com
I think so, it was all fang mouthy, but maybe it was just a fancy vampire. could easily be wrong!

yeah, I love the idea that they all just ate each other, especially once the humans were less docile.

Date: 2013-09-21 05:32 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] supernutjapan.livejournal.com
I watched this episode yesterday so I am back to enjoy your comments. I had so many things I wanted to comment on while reading, and now I don't remember any of them so... I'm just going to go back again.

First, I loved the scene re the playboy magazine. So funny. And as you said, reminds us of Annie.


- Here's a question for everyone: Do you think they WILL bring back the leviathans at all? I think that, unfortunately, they were a largely failed monster - but, that being said, not ever addressing them again would be kind of a major plot hole. Opinions?

I think the Leviathon, after they got Dick, became just another monster. I guess word was put out (by Sam??) to all the hunters so they could be picked off one by one. They are not going to be addressed as a major issue.

Dean: "Like I said, Bobby's got some ideas."
I love this line and Dean's face as he says it.

Dean: "Piece of paper would have worked."
Loved this! Crowley's love for the dramatic!

Their whole exchange with Crowley makes me anticipate the next one with Cass/Crowley.

Dean: "I can't do this. I can't live on rabbit food. I'm a warrior!"
Love this line. Love Dean's love of meat and fast food. Love that he thinks of himself as a warrior (Also mentioned in Heartache).

Dean: "Hey! Hold out your arm, we need your blood!"
Love all of what you mentioned in this scene. The guy in the middle looking back and forth at Dean and Sam...

Dean: "I think you've got the oldest monster on earth thinking that he can hold his own because he always has."- I absolutely love Dean's last line there, because it's...well, it's fuckin' WISE.

You said it.

Sam: "But Dean, we gave up all our vamptonite!"Dean: "Did we?" *takes it out of boot* I love this. I guess Dean wanted to be prepared for the eventuality that Sam's plan wouldn't work aye?

Alpha!Vamp: "We come from you."
Wouldn't this mean that Eve was leviathon? Maybe she evolved into something else...

What could possibly go wrong?"
Love the sarcasm.

Anyway, I enjoyed your comments and had another laugh remembering some of those scenes. Thanks!
Edited Date: 2013-09-21 05:36 am (UTC)

Date: 2013-09-22 05:06 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hells-half-acre.livejournal.com
I agree with you about the leviathon!

Wouldn't this mean that Eve was leviathon? Maybe she evolved into something else...

Leviathon were the first monster - I don't think that necessarily meant that eve was a leviathon, I think it just means the subsequent monsters were "modeled" from aspects of the leviathon. Like, how an you have artists who are inspired by a previous style...the Beatles were inspired by Elvis, and arguably, they wouldn't have existed had Elvis not existed, but you can't call the Beatles aren't Elvis and have a much different style. So, Eve was modeled after the leviathon, but wasn't necessarily a leviathon.

But, we also just don't know... we never found out if phoenix ash could kill leviathon, because phoenix ash is too hard to come by.

Date: 2013-09-22 08:20 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] supernutjapan.livejournal.com
I just thought it was interesting that the AlphaVamp said, "We came from you." That implies they evolved from Levi not just modelled after them. Sort of like we come from the Ape family.

Your idea that they were modelled after the Levi - there is the question of by whom? God? the Levis themselves? Definite possibility, but I like the evolution theory better.

I also thought it was interesting the Levi says Eve "was a whore." Was she sleeping around to procreate monsters or something? With whom? humans? Or was he just being derogatory?

It is also interesting that in Season Six Eve was explained as being the mother of all monsters just as the alpha are the fathers. Which doesn't really make sense when you think about it. The Alpha would more likely be the first child (of the particular monster) born of Eve.

Anyway, its fun to imagine all sorts of possibilities. These kind of puzzles tend to possess me sometimes. But you are right, we will never know for sure.
Edited Date: 2013-09-22 09:33 am (UTC)

Date: 2013-09-22 09:35 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hells-half-acre.livejournal.com
Yeah, my argument is that "we came from you" is not meant literally, but metaphorically.

We never did find out how Eve fertilized her eggs, so who knows! Maybe he did mean it literally and Eve used a bit of levi-dna to make vamps.

But yeah, no way of knowing - and the writers probably left it vague on purpose, because even they didn't know the answer.

Your idea that they were modelled after the Levi - there is the question of by whom? God? the Levis themselves? Definite possibility, but I would go with the evolution theory.

We know that the leviathons were created by God. Death tells us that. I just assumed that God then created Eve to take over the "monster division" so to speak, and then Even created all the other monsters.

I don't think the levis would have created any monsters themselves, because the levis seemed to think that all other monsters were worthless inferior things - if they had created them, I think they'd feel differently about them. Which is I guess a big part of the reason I don't think Eve was a levi.

Date: 2013-09-22 01:37 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] supernutjapan.livejournal.com
I just assumed that God then created Eve to take over the "monster division" so to speak, and then Even created all the other monsters.

When we talk about God, I always think of the Christian God because that is how I was brought up - in which case, God would not create monsters on purpose. I will tell you a theory that has gone around in Christian circles though... you know in Genesis at the very beginning "God created light and dark" and then after that "God created the sun and the moon." Some say that maybe God created some sort of being (other than the other animals/humans) between these verses - maybe dinosaurs - maybe some sentient being. It didn't work out and God started over with humans. So this idea about Leviathons being created by God is a theory that can be traced back to that.

However, this is the god of SPN... Chuck(Kripke)?? I'd say there is a big possibility that "God" could have created Eve... just to make things interesting ;)
Edited Date: 2013-09-22 02:00 pm (UTC)

Date: 2013-09-22 09:17 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hells-half-acre.livejournal.com
Yeah, when I talk about "God" in SPN, I don't mean the God of Christianity or any other world religion - I mean the ambiguous God of SPN that might not necessarily be a force for good. SPN has a very humanist view-point and if you just look at their take on angels (mainly, that angels can be just as evil as demons) then it's not such a stretch to believe that the SPN God would have created monsters.

But the fact of the matter is that Death tells us in 7x01 that God created the leviathon (thus, we know that God created monsters) and then when the leviathon were TOO dangerous for the rest of Gods creations, God locked them away in purgatory. So, we know that God created the monsters - whether directly or through his creation of eve.

SPN treats God like another Supernatural being... Dean even tells Cas at one point to let God know that Dean's coming for him next. So... yeah, Chuck aside, I see God as a Death-like character. Only instead of being in charge of death, God is in charge of life.

Date: 2013-09-22 10:07 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] supernutjapan.livejournal.com
Only instead of being in charge of death, God is in charge of life. I agree with that. And yes, I would not contest the fact the Levi were created by God since we know it as fact. However, although the God of SPN/the writer certainly creates the groundwork for the whole Supernatural Unverse, these creations will have evolved and changed, outside of his control. That is what is so wonderful about the writing profession isn't it - the fact that characters tend to take on a life of their own. Cas confirms in season 7 that humans evolved out of apes even in the SPN Universe, and personally, I think it is more interesting to think that Eve could have evolved out of the first monsters as well. Actually, it is very possible also that when God created the Levi, they were not the monsters they are now. That they evolved and changed into what they are with time. I'm not trying to change your mind though. Your idea is one possibility as well and since we cannot prove anything one way or another, it's just fun to develop the various possibilities in our minds. Love the discussion & looking forward to the next episode :)

Date: 2013-09-22 10:12 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hells-half-acre.livejournal.com
Agreed, it's all very interesting stuff to think about.

And there is definitely evolution in the SPN universe. So, maybe when the Levis were created they weren't that horrible, but then they evolved into something that was and that's when God locked them away.

It's interesting blend of science+religion, because it means that the fall of Lucifer would have happened after the evolution of humans - so, back when Castiel's brother was telling him not to step on that fish, Lucifer was still an archangel. I also think it's neat that Uriel called humans "mudmonkeys"... just to show that in the eyes of the angels, humans really hadn't been evolved for very long.

So, yeah, fascinating stuff!

Date: 2013-09-22 09:41 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hells-half-acre.livejournal.com
I replied before you edited your comment, so I'll reply to the new section...

It is also interesting that in Season Six Eve was explained as being the mother of all monsters just as the alpha are the fathers. Which doesn't really make sense when you think about it. The Alpha would more likely be the first child (of the particular monster) born of Eve.

Yeah, I didn't see it as a Parent-Pair at all. Eve is the mother who birthed the alphas... and then the alphas used humans to birth all their "offspring." So, the alphavamp was created by Eve, and then in turn he feeds human his blood and has "children" - so, he's both the son of eve (who is the mother of every vampire) and the father of every vampire.

Before the European people came to NA, there was this native nation that had this really neat political system. The nation was run by a council of men, but the men were elected only by the women. I kind of saw the political structure of the monsters as being the same as that in a way - if that even makes sense to you. My brain makes weird connections sometimes.

Date: 2013-09-22 01:24 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] supernutjapan.livejournal.com
if that even makes sense to you. My brain makes weird connections sometimes.
Yah, I sort of get it :)

The Japanese had that sort of system too in the olden days. Based on procreation I guess.
Edited Date: 2013-09-22 01:35 pm (UTC)

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