Fandom at the Crossroads - a review

[hells_half_acre]

I just finished reading Fandom at the Crossroads: Celebration, Shame and Fan/Producer Relationships by Lynn Zubernis and Katherine Larson (AKA the two lovely ladies who write Fangasm!)

I had bought it for myself (shipped up from the states no less) as a housewarming present. Because I'm the type of person that buys myself books as gifts instead of more practical things like clothes. It cost me a pretty penny, but it was worth it. (I also bought myself a Moriar Tea mug.) 

It's a really interesting book. The first 2/3 is about the psychology of fandom, specifically the psychology of female-dominated fandom and fanfic. I never studied psychology, which I think might be part of the reason I was fascinated. I love learning about things that I haven't studied before, and it was even more interesting because it was someone talking about a culture that I'm actively involved in - and basically grew up with (although I wasn't a participatory member of the culture until I discovered Supernatural). 

One thing the book really sheds light on is this ingrained fan-shame that we all (or most) seem to have to some degree or another and how we internalize and externalize it. I always thought that I didn't talk about fandom because...well, I was mostly just reading it for the porn when I was a teenager (Hi Mum!)...but even though that's not true anymore (90% of what I read is gen or I SKIP the porny bits and just read for the plot/characters/emotional-porn), the instinct is still to NOT talk about it. 

Therefore, most of my family and friends don't actually know that I've already written the equivalent of three or four novels...or that I READ the equivalent of 3 to 4 novels every week (and yet struggle to finish a regular book in time for book club every month). 

And the weird thing is, even if I DID only read for the porn, I'm actually of the opinion that sex and sexuality is something that people SHOULD talk about. That it shouldn't be something that anyone is ashamed of...I mean, there's a reason that they're called Pride Parades. (And even unhealthy sexual inclinations should be talked about so that people who have them can get the help they need, rather than living in constant fear of having their life destroyed and trying and possibly failing to manage it themselves...but that's an extremely sensitive rant that I won't go into right now).

I mean, there are kinks that I just do not understand...enemas, pregnancy, feeder, D/s....but that doesn't mean that I think people who get off on that kind of thing are wrong or should be ashamed of themselves in some way...after all, it's all about perspective. Just because you don't understand something, doesn't mean that it's wrong. I could tell an enema-kink fan about one of my kinks, and they could recoil in horror and say "Oh god! How on earth could you like that?! Why don't you read this nice enema fic instead..." and then I'd vomit and it'd just be a horrible scene...and someone somewhere would probably get off on it - and I'd be okay with that.

Basically, I'm saying that society is a bit fucked up - and it's also REALLY misogynistic, and sometimes I don't even realize HOW misogynistic until I read a book about women's psychology. It's amazing how much of this stuff is ingrained in people's psyche's...

For instance, the book talks about the fourth-wall breaking episodes and the divided reaction to them (The pre-S7 Chuck and Becky episodes especially)...and to be honest, I never realized how much some people didn't like these episodes. I really hate negativity, so I rarely read people's episodes reactions...I just don't want my squee harshed. The book actually includes some of the unfavourable reactions - and I found them interesting. They didn't piss me off and get me defensive about the show, instead, they actually just made me really sad for some people - because it was quite obvious that their dislike for the episodes wasn't really about the episodes, but about how their own self-perception. 

I've always had a sort of fucked-up gender identity (in my opinion anyway, I'm probably just normal)...but one thing I seem to have avoided (thankfully) is this notion that women aren't allowed/supposed to have complex sexual lives. And man, after reading this book, I realize just how much I avoided it. And I also realized how important it is for feminism and society as a whole that we all try to avoid it...I really do think that women should be less ashamed of their extremely complex sexual lives and more proud of them. We'd all be a lot happier (the men included).

Even with the sex aside - it's interesting that there's shame about just being a FAN of something...being a nerd/geek about something. I was talking about the book at bookclub (we have a slightly weird book club where we all read separate books)...and there is one other person at bookclub who is a "geek" like me. And I was describing what the authors were saying about fan-shame, and the other members of bookclub were confused and curious about...and they said to my friend

"So, do you find your censor yourself around other people?"
"Yes. All the time."
"Really?! This is you censoring yourself!? Wow! Well, please don't stop!"
...and we all had a laugh...but honestly, they had just made the book's point, and at the same time declared that it WASN'T okay for my friend to be THAT enthused about something or to actually be open and honest about her life...suggesting that she DID have something to be ashamed of, when she really does not.

(I should point out that one member of bookclub seems to be a walking hypocrisy machine).

(Of course, we later made the point that there's a difference between censoring yourself out of shame, and censoring yourself because whoever you are talking to just doesn't care. I mean, we've all been in the situation where someone is going on and on to us about football/computers/model-trains/history/fishingboats/finances/BattlestarGalactica and we've been saying "uh huh, yeah...uh huh" and inside we are screaming "OMG shut-up, can you not see that I don't care!!")

The last 3rd of the book talks how modern technology is breaking the 4th wall, and how Supernatural has embraced that more than any other show out there. This section was a lot of fun, of course, because it had interviews with Jared, Jensen, Kripke, and many many others from the show. And it's not your standard interviews, where they are just like "We love the fans" and "Wait until you see what we're bringing you next season!" Instead it's interviews about how Jared and Jensen manage their public personas, whether the creative team actually do listen to the fans or not, and what the creative team (Jared and Jensen included) really think about fanfiction and slashfic.

And this is where the whole internalized shame thing comes into play, because I was at a convention where someone asked Jensen a question about Dean/Cas, and I was pissed off, and the audience was pissed off, and Jensen looked pissed off too...so, naturally, my conclusion was "asking about slash pisses Jensen (and everyone) off." So, I thought it was rather hilarious that in reality, we only THINK it pisses him off. He doesn't actually give crap. (That being said, I do think that questions at conventions should only be about canon...but then, I'm a crazy canon-nazi, you may have noticed).

Jensen actually has the same opinion about slash as I do! (with the exception that he doesn't read it). He thinks he understands why people do it, and he doesn't care one way or the other about it...but he does wish that sometimes bros could just be bros. (And he says all this in the midst of a very adorable long speech about how awesome his friendship with Jared is.) Jared's opinion can basically be summed up as "whatever floats your boat."

Jared's interviews, of course, only made me like him more...which I thought was pretty hilarious, since in one of the interviews he basically says that I only like him because I've chosen to like him, and it doesn't really matter who he actually is...(and likewise, he likes me because he's decided to like me, and he doesn't really want to know who I actually am either, because this way we can all just love each other and be happy...seriously, what's not to love there?).

Anyway, yeah...interesting book. I could babble on more about it...but uh...I have a lot already, it seems. Hopefully whatever the heck I said makes sense.

Comments

[nerthus.livejournal.com]

I would love to read their book, but I feel the price is rather too expensive for my tastes (and my budget!).

[lk737.livejournal.com]

Total sense! I am a trained counselor and this psychology stuff really interests me, in particular in relation to misogyny.

I love the interview info you gave us about what Jensen and Jared said about the shipping. That is so cool what Jared said. Thank you!

And I find interesting your views on kinks. I have my own too, and don't understand some, but to each their own. I guess I figure as long as they aren't hurting anyone or themselves, why not? Worse things in the world. And I think women should be allowed to own their sexuality too, without shame. I think men tend to belittle and manipulate women when it comes to sex, i.e. shaming all the way up to rape. I think it's about men not respecting women altogether, which can tend to influence women's thoughts about not respecting themselves.

By the way, I'm a canon nazi too ;D I don't begrudge ship wars or the like, but I love the story that is told.

[quickreaver.livejournal.com]

It's a bummer it's so expensive; I'd LOVE to get my hands on it. I'll keep an eye on it, though, in case it comes down in price at any point. Great review!

[borgmama1of5.livejournal.com]

Very intrigued to find someone who had read this book--it's currently out of my price range, but I would love to read it, esp. the in-depth interviews with the people who make it--I always wonder about their take on fandom, and whether they have thoughts on the difference between what they think they gave us and what fans perceive.

If you have more to say, please continue!

[khek.livejournal.com]

Sounds like a great book! I'd love to read it, and I probably will...eventually.

I wonder if my library would buy it...

[juppschmitz.livejournal.com]

...if you go to amazon you can "click to look inside". So at least you can read a few of the 250 pages... ;)

Seems to be an interesting, well researched book that is sympathetic to the fandom. But *gulps* 50 Euros...

[fannishliss.livejournal.com]

thanks for mentioning the book and some of the stuff in it!

I'm glad to know that neither of the guys really cares about slash. I think it is respectful to keep our fan products out of the faces of the actors, who are making a very different product than legally can't be seen to be interacting with fan products. (Several years ago my little boy wrote a cute Supernatural story that I sent to Vancouver as kind of a "look how cool you guys are, you inspired my little boy to write a fun story" idea -- but postcards are acceptable while stories get returned very politely by WB Legal!) But it's also good to know that neither Jared nor Jensen is actively offended by slash or fanfic in general, since there are some creators/actors who have been.

I think a lot of the "shame" of being a slash fan is what we fear the response would be from "straight" fans and colleagues. It's kind of a closet we build for ourselves. I don't really know what my friends would think about some of the explicit fic I have posted on the internetz... much less some of the incredibly explicit stuff I have read here and there (I am very curious about kinks and so I read a lot of stuff that I would never touch in RL).

I've always tried to make the internet and my experience of fandom as Woman Positive as I can. There is a certain amount of internalized misogyny among women friends, particularly in terms of how women characters are so heavily critiqued for being not enough this or too much that, or simply for taking screen time away from Our Boys while at the same time being reamed for being two-dimensional. Yeah, I have feelings about that. But I also think that there is a certain cultural element in fandom that suggests that secrecy = survival. There used to be an element that fanwork was okay as long as everybody could pretend it didn't exist -- but if networks found out about it they would be compelled to Shut Us Down. A few of my friends have actually received Cease and Desist notices -- so it's not an entirely groundless fear.

I guess all this is just to say -- does the book address fears that have some grounds? like --
"I have to keep my fanworks secret in order to protect myself from cease and desist orders."
"I have to keep secret because I am much kinkier online than I appear to my friends at church and on the PTA."
"I don't want to appear like I have Internet Addiction or that I waste my time and money." (Obvs. this one is more about perception of to what degree a person's fannishness dominates their life and/or a value judgement of how resources "should" be attributed)


anyways, thanks for sharing!

[et-tu-lj.livejournal.com]

Sounds fascinating, I'll have to keep it in mind for a wish list when I've got a bit extra to spend.

Working at a bookstore alongside a lot of writers, I'm very open about my fandom participation. Most of the employees are aware of or participate to some degree in fandom. (Though TV-based fandom has some bias against it in that setting - they all know I write HP fics, but most would look at me oddly for Supernatural fics.) But I definitely run into the idea that I'm not serious about my writing unless I write towards publication. I don't admit that I've spent 5 years guiding my Severus fic to its final finished form, because they'd think it's a waste of time to have spent that long on a fanfiction. Nevermind that I couldn't have written a novel-length fic before I'd learned the process through a character I love and feel passionately about, even though he's from someone else's world.

[katsheswims.livejournal.com]

Huh. That sounds very interesting. I think I'm going to have to read this book.

Jared's reasoning at the end was funny, though it seems pretty true to me. I think that's how most people feel about celebrities-they don't really know them, but based on what fans hear and how they see celebrities in shows/photos/interviews they decided to like the them or not. I think this is especially true of celebrities like Jared and Jensen who are famous but not mega-famous.

[lusciniate.livejournal.com]

Because I'm the type of person that buys myself books as gifts instead of more practical things like clothes.

And this sentence right there just made my day. I do the same thing. And sometimes even more impractical things like theatre tickets.. At least books make a nice "shelf decor" when they become more than just a few hundreds :D 

[metallidean-grl.livejournal.com]

This sounds like a very interesting book and one that I would love to read, eventually. Particularly the last third of the book, the interviews of cast and crew would intrigue me the most.

But I totally get the shame one feels sometimes in regards to loving a show or being a part of fandom. All my life when I have gotten really interested and invested in a show, my brothers would look at me like I am some weird individual and my dad would shake his head all worried that I am in my fantasy land again and hoped that those thoughts or feelings didn't spill over into my real life in any way. None of my family or friends took an interest in my love or interest in shows, even now with Supernatural. I have a niece that is really into the show and we are together we have great talks, but otherwise, my family has no interest. And the sad thing is is that they have no interest in understanding or knowing why this show has become such an integral part of my life and is so important. They don't care. Yet, when the family gets together, all my brothers can talk about is politics and I have to sit and listen to them ad nauseum ALL THE TIME about their opinions and feelings and thoughts, etc. It drives me crazy. There is even one brother who doesn't know what show it is I am crazy about. He knows there is a show, but I refuse to tell him because I know that the only kind of response I will get from him will be teasing or a roll of the eyes, so yea, I keep quiet.

But, I'm not sure if it is shame or more just other people don't care, or don't understand, so why try to talk about it when others don't have any interest or desire to know anything further. However, I grew up with so many rolls of the eyes and weird looks from my brothers about my "obsessions" that I am very sensitive in talking about any of this to others outside of fandom.

[nic]

Thank you for this review, and for sharing some of the insights! It sounds like a fascinating book that I will have to track down.

ingrained fan-shame that we all (or most) seem to have to some degree

I'm one of those (rare, apparently?) fans who doesn't have fan-shame. I never have and when I first came across it (in a male fan) I couldn't comprehend why he would hide his Star Trek obsession. I mean, it was cool, and just because other people didn't like it didn't mean he was a loser!

But apparently a lot of people were mocked earlier in life for liking geeky stuff. I sometimes wonder why not me - because I grew up in a fan-friendly family where we all watched SF together? Because I was teased for being 'smart' rather than fannish? Because I don't look like the stereotype of a fan? Does the book shed light on root causes?

[I agree with the comments already here, that there are certain things you don't talk about in public ever, only with trusted friends, and important people in my life have always been aware that I write fic. I just link 'em to the (boring?) gen stuff and they lose interest.]

[chemm80]

I ran across this post while searching for info on the book. Specifically I was wondering why in the hell it was so expensive. Do you know? I will say that your review makes me want to read it more, especially the interviews the cast and staff (because I'm weird about those--there's that ingrained sense of shame raising its ugly head) so thanks for your insights, although I'll probably see if the paperback version is any more reasonably priced.

[agent-jl36.livejournal.com]

Your review helped me make the decision and indulge myself. Thanks! Now to wait impatiently till it arrives!

Silent television fanning...

[cynthia blackburn (from livejournal.com)]

Larsen and Zubernis also wrote a much more budget friendly (if you don't mind the ebook) book called Fangasm, which is sort of the same topic with far more squee and less acadamia. (It's even got pics of J&J squeeing at a copy of itself, which is almost Winchestual in a strange way...)

It's more about their own adventures as fans, where they really do spend hours in line at cons and how Lynn refused to talk to the actors because she was too embarrassed (at first).

One thing they mentioned that made me smack me forehead and say "Hey...yeah!" was that MEN are fans of sports teams and no one blinks twice. In fact, it's almost abnormal if they're NOT fanatics about the local team. And--because my husband and I live in New England (please google if you're not in the US and don't know where this is), home of the NE Patriots football team...one of my sons is named Tom and the other is named...Brady. (Was this MY idea? NO! Does anyone think this is odd/obsessive? No! Can you believe it?) And I thanked God that my daughter waited to be born until after the World Series, because otherwise, I might have labored alone while hubs and probably my OB cheered at the television.

He's got T-shirts, hats, mugs, water bottles, a license plate holder, window decals, flags, Christmas tree ornaments, winter jackets, spring windbreakers and sweatpants emblazoned with Boston sports team logos--Bruins, Celtics, Red Sox and Pats. Does anyone think he's sad/delusional/pathetic? No! It's all normal and good.

So why do I feel like a freak if I even think about--maybe--seeing if there's a reasonably priced Supernatural mug (only for home consumption! God forbid anyone sees it outside my home!)? Isn't this somehow wrong?