hells_half_acre: (Puppy Is Mad)
[personal profile] hells_half_acre
Hello! So, this one is a little later - because once again I had to juggle Supernatural with Book Club...so, yeah, I actually watched Supernatural hours ago and then talked about books for a long time...so we'll see how much I remember.

BRUTAL MURDER! Man, it didn't register right away that he was missing his feet and hands - but that's super gross and awful.

The Winchester part of the episode opens with Sam driving! And they have a car that is at least SIMILAR to the Impala...in that it is black and has that nice little curve over the back wheels...but yeah...Sam's driving and we get the classic "there are no leads on the main plot, so let's do a MOTW" line.

So, does anyone know who played the coroner/cop? He looked SO FAMILIAR. I liked Dean going on about their prescription coverage - hilarious. If there's one way to sell that you belong to a profession, it's to go on about the medical plan. (At least in the States, anyway).

I also liked the little tribute to the old "I guess it's our kind of thing" line...and I love Sam's reply of "'not anything human' usually does it for me." - Haha, I just realized that that line out of context can actually be taken two ways...and both are true for Sammy.

Anyhoo, Dean goes off to drink and Sam goes off to actually work. It's an interesting dynamic in the 7th season, because we have these character traits that are so ingrained that they aren't ever going to change...Sam will always be hyper focused on the current hunt, and Dean will always be more likely to goof off if he's not personally invested in whatever they are doing. We also get this interesting dynamic this season where Dean is pretty much self-destructing, but Sam isn't going to call him on it, because Sam has to pick his battles.

Like in Defending Your Life, I sort of get the feeling like Dean is going through the motions - because he's doing the whole "fake it 'til you make it" thing, which, coincidentally is the advice Frank gave him anyway. But he seem to figure that his best strategy is to "act like Dean" and then no one will notice the whole self-destruction. The problem, of course, is that we all have a very different self-image than what we actually are...so Dean is basically turning into a caricature of himself.  And you can see it in the way he seems to get rather depressed with his own lies.

I also thought it was interesting that he spoke Japanese to the girl, and said he knew enough to get by. Japanese was Bobby's thing.

Sex scene! Awesome! Oh, wait, before I get there....the music in this episode was awesome. I liked the use of Louden Swain song in the bar, and the use of AC/DC over a Dean sex scene is always approved. Also, Dean's chest! 

And it was really cool to have the sex scene spliced with a gruesome murder. Very neat way to show exactly what mistake Dean was making.

And then stuff happens...and Dean forgets Bobby's flask...and Sam is amused that Dean was turned down by a woman...and then Dean goes to the womans house, and Sam sees that all the victims went to the same bar as Dean and phone's Dean to tell him he "dodged a bullet" - odd thing for Sam to assume :P

The kid is cute. As my friend said, that kid is going to have HUGE EYES.

Oh, I forgot to talk about the "Expert" - My friend and I were both rather distracted when Sam and Dean left his office and walked down that hallway - we both recognized it as the hallway in the PCA video...and were distracted by the fact that up until the very end, anyway, the boys legs weren't in frame. So we were both giggling to ourselves, picturing them doing it pants-less.

Anyhoo...

The professor dude added a nice comedic aspect to the episode - and also served as a reminder of just how much the boys are missing Bobby, not just for his fatherlyness, but also for his expertise and efficiency. I have to say that I also love the stuff that Jared and Jensen do with facial expressions alone. When Sam says they need to get in touch with an expert and Dean says "Our expert is dead", Sam's facial expression really says it all.

Blah blah blah...kid grows up...oh! THE PAPERS! 

Okay, so we finally find out that Dean and Sam DID burn Bobby - so they don't believe that he can be a ghost. HOWEVER, they say this while sitting in a room full of his possessions....furthermore, they say this after Dean went to great lengths to get Bobby's flask back...a flask, need I point out, that Dean has become VERY sentimentally attached to very quickly. All I'm saying is that Bobby's ghost doesn't need to be bound to the world by his bones...

Sam goes to the professor dude, because neither he nor Dean can read ancient Greek. They should really learn. I guess they have Latin down, and it's my personal fanon that Dean's proficient in Hebrew.

And finally Emma attacks. I like the way she bluffed Dean... it shows cunning. Also, it's a great way to play Dean, because he has a weakness for both children AND family. Just jumping back here, I loved how when he saw that Lidia has a kid, he immediately walked right over to the crib and interacted with the baby...Dean said it back in Dead in the Water and no one believed him, but he really does love kids.

Oh, jumping back again here, I love the fact that when Sam gets mad at Dean for sleeping with the monster - he doesn't get mad at him for sleeping with the monster, he gets mad at him for not having safe sex. Such a good message there - not sex negative, just unsafe-sex negative. ;)

I also love that Sam rationalizes that it can't be Bobby's ghost because they WANT it to be. That's epically heartbreaking. 

Anyway...yeah, so I like the way Emma bluffed Dean. I also like that her little suitcase was bright pink.

I liked Sam bluffing the Amazon-cop lady and shooting her in the chest...and I loved Dean pulling that gun out of the fridge and not getting duped. And, I like how it came full circle to Dean trying to talk Emma into running and not killing him, and Sam coming in and killing her for him. Sam isn't going to win any World's Greatest Uncle awards anytime soon, but he'll still win the World's Greatest Brother awards, so it balances out.

Which brings us to the end of the episode - when Sam is once again driving...and that's gotta be a sign of something, doesn't it? 

Sam tells Dean that he doesn't care how Dean copes or what Dean does, but Dean just can't get killed or die on him...and that's really the battle that Sam is picking. Sam needs Dean alive. He doesn't need him sober. He doesn't need him happy. He just needs him to be alive. I think Sam has been putting up such a great front with the Hell-hallucinations thing that Dean has forgotten that he is Sam's Stone #1. And I think that's going to go come back and bite Dean  (and Sam) in the ass in the future.

I must say, that although this was yet another MOTW, I enjoyed it because it built up the issues the boys are dealing with in a subtle way that informed us how things are effecting both their day to day life, and the relationship between the brothers. (I also liked it, because unlike in a lot of people's fic, the show didn't turn Sam into a nagging-wife character... it actually showed him dealing with Dean's issues in a much more realistic and true-to-character way.)


Okay, so, I'm sure I missed stuff....but, it's nearly 1am, so please forgive me. 

Date: 2012-02-04 09:12 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] raloria.livejournal.com
I think you lost me after you said Dean's chest! Heehee! :D

Anyway, I loved the episode. Shocker, right? I'm glad they brought up things moving on the boys aka the paper here and the beer in the earlier ep. At least Dean's on the page as most of the fandom is. I don't buy Sam's excuse of the breeze coming in the window. I rewatched it and there's no way that paper just moved there by itself. Besides, anytime they showed the papers they weren't flapping around due to any breeze!

All I'm saying is that Bobby's ghost doesn't need to be bound to the world by his bones... Another good point! Here they've got all these books and papers that were Bobby's. In "It's A Terrible Life" they burned a glove to get rid of a spirit because there might be a hair or a hangnail in there. Which begs the question that why do they only burn bones when any tiny bit of remains could keep a spirit bound to earth? I know, I'm overthinking, right? :P

Date: 2012-02-04 09:21 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hells-half-acre.livejournal.com
I don't buy the breeze excuse either - as Dean said, they didn't feel any breeze.

In Hookman, the ghost was attached to a hook. In Route 666 the ghost was attached to a truck. The kicker, of course, is that it has to be an object that the person was attached to while they were alive - something that was part of their identity. So, it can't be just anything...and, yeah, I don't buy the hair and hangnail thing, because then we'd all be bound to the earth - since we, I mean, HOUSE DUST is largely human skin cells that we're shredding...so, yeah, that's way too much. BUT, just to excuse It's A Terrible Life - they were gloves that were SHOWCASED in a building that the dude BUILT (or whatever)...so, plenty of reasons beyond a hangnail that the ghost might have attached himself to them.

Right now, I'm thinking the flask, because the show has pointed it out more than once now...but originally, when the possibility of Bobby's ghost first appeared, I was actually wondering what they would do if Bobby had attached himself to THE BOYS (ala the organ-transplant girl, only without the organ-transplant. But, maybe ghosts can't attach themselves to people, only objects...) In any case, that's definitely Bobby, and he'd definitely still around despite having been given a Hunter's funeral.

Date: 2012-02-04 01:44 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] vail-kagami.livejournal.com
Just yesterday I went through some episode reactions I did for various shows I watch/watched and wondered why I don't do them anymore. This is the answer - everything I could say about the episodes, you and some others already said, so I'm quite happy to save time and just leave my two cents randomly in other people's journals.

I also like how Sam deals with Dean's alcoholim. Sometimes I resent that it's not more of an issue, that Sam just takes it in stride, but you're right, it makes sense for them and it's realistic.

What annoyed me about Dean this time was the "I can't be arsed to care about this case, do it alone" mindset he sported until the baby came into play. I can't even put my finger on it, but I think it reminds me some something that hurt me, in a "Yeah, we decided to do this together, but now the time has come I don't give a fuck anymore so have fun and I'll be over there doing something more interesting, please get that I don't care and don't actually annoy me with your excitement" kind of way.

Also, it felt a little like Dean is so focused on his own issues that he leaves Sam alone with everything, but then, Dean has always only been able to see things from his own point of view.

Sam's refusal to believe Dean about the monster baby also annoyed me a bit, because they deal with this kind of stuff and he should have been more open minded. Then again, I guess this was little bother!Sam taking over, needing to tease big brother!Dean. It was kind if cute, but still.

The whole Sam shooting Emma thing: when they told us there would be a situation like with Dean killing Amy but with reversed roles, I actually kind of hoped it would be more morally questionable, for the silly reason that then I could be pissed at Sam and prove that I wasn't only pissed at Dean for murdering Amy because I like him less than Sam and am less willing to forgive what he does. But that didn't really happen here, because the way I see it, Sam killing Emma was a lot more justified than Dean killing Amy. It was obvious she was playing Dean, and it was obvious she was there to kill him. But maybe that's my Sam-goggles clouding my view. (I would have added the "Sam killed her so Dean wouldn't have to kill his own daughter" argument, but the final conversation in the car doesn't support that.)

It was nice to have Dean be the one to sleep with the monster for once, though. Way to save your brother's reputation, Dean!

One more thing about Emma's act: I know she can't have known that, but if she had, playing the "I want to get away from my family and have a normal life" card would have been very smart because it reminds Dean of Sammy.

Date: 2012-02-04 08:12 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hells-half-acre.livejournal.com
"Yeah, we decided to do this together, but now the time has come I don't give a fuck anymore so have fun and I'll be over there doing something more interesting, please get that I don't care and don't actually annoy me with your excitement" kind of way.

Very true...and that's a failing of Dean at the moment. Though, just like Sam's reaction to the alcoholism, it's actually realistic. It's a major sign of depression - to suddenly start reneging on all your commitments, even stuff that used to make you happy. Basically, it's Dean not contributing to the marriage anymore.

Also, it felt a little like Dean is so focused on his own issues that he leaves Sam alone with everything, but then, Dean has always only been able to see things from his own point of view.

Indeed - and I think it's going to come back and bite him in the ass, because he's leaving Sam to shoulder everything and Sam's foundation is cracked.

Sam's refusal to believe Dean about the monster baby also annoyed me a bit, because they deal with this kind of stuff and he should have been more open minded. Then again, I guess this was little bother!Sam taking over, needing to tease big brother!Dean. It was kind if cute, but still.

Yeah, that didn't make that much sense to me either - why did he assume that Dean had "dodged a bullet" going to that bar when he had no proof that Dean WOULDN'T be violently killed a couple days after? That's really my biggest criticism for this episode - which isn't too bad of one, considering it does make for some great brother teasing.

Sam killing Emma was a lot more justified than Dean killing Amy. It was obvious she was playing Dean, and it was obvious she was there to kill him. But maybe that's my Sam-goggles clouding my view.

Yes, I agree. It would have been better if Sam had come in and killed her before she drew the knife - or if she had actually turned to leave (as Dean wanted her too) and then Sam killed her once she got outside. But, yeah...maybe the show can't kill a teenager like that and get passed the censors? I'm not sure...maybe they just wanted us not to hate Sam. A lot of fandom is VERY quick to not forgive Sam his mistakes, or hate him for things that aren't even mistakes. It's a bizarre thing.

One more thing about Emma's act: I know she can't have known that, but if she had, playing the "I want to get away from my family and have a normal life" card would have been very smart because it reminds Dean of Sammy.

I think also, that there's a large part of Dean who craves a normal life too, so yeah, that card would have worked all around. Plus, there's the fact that Dean, for some reason, has trouble killing kids.




Date: 2012-02-07 09:16 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] vail-kagami.livejournal.com
I actually kind of like how they handle Dean's depression, because it's relatively subtle, yet makes clear how this affects not only Dean but those around him as well - in this case Sam. Whcih is a problem, because beside Dean there's only Sam, so neither of them has any support.

I like how Sam handles this, though. It's hardly ideal, but leaving Dean his space and trying to let him indulge his unhealthy habits as much as possible is the only thing he can do for him. It's not like they can get him the professional help he'd probably need - and even if they could, I don't think they'd think of that. It's very true to the way they live.

But like you said, Sam can't do it alone and that's gonna be ugly in the end.

While I agree that they have to be more careful with Sam's action because the fan's don't forgive him as easily, I don't actually think him killing Emma when she wanted to leave would have been in-character. He is, after all, more of the mindset "You become a monster through what you do, not what you are." If she'd walked a way, they would have needed some better reason than that for him to kill her.

Date: 2012-02-07 07:40 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hells-half-acre.livejournal.com
I actually kind of like how they handle Dean's depression, because it's relatively subtle, yet makes clear how this affects not only Dean but those around him as well - in this case Sam.

I agree.

While I agree that they have to be more careful with Sam's action because the fan's don't forgive him as easily, I don't actually think him killing Emma when she wanted to leave would have been in-character. He is, after all, more of the mindset "You become a monster through what you do, not what you are." If she'd walked a way, they would have needed some better reason than that for him to kill her.

Hmm, yes, you have a point. I wouldn't want them to undo that theme for Sam either.

Date: 2012-02-04 02:52 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] borgmama1of5.livejournal.com
I liked the ambiguity of the scene with Dean and Emma--was she really regretful, and would Dean have been able to kill her? Every single fan will have to answer that in their own mind, and there just isn't a right or wrong answer!

Date: 2012-02-04 08:02 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hells-half-acre.livejournal.com
Yes! And that's a great way to leave it...so that we can interpret the scene based on how we individually interpret the characters.

Date: 2012-02-04 05:49 pm (UTC)
majorshipper: (Default)
From: [personal profile] majorshipper
I went into the episode actually anticipating liking it, and, for once, I got exactly what I was hoping for, and, even, a little bit more on the boys front. There were things I didn't like, but the sheer number of things that I really, really adored balanced it out enough.

Date: 2012-02-04 08:01 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hells-half-acre.livejournal.com
Yay! I always try to go in with the anticipation that I'll like it...sometimes, yeah, that doesn't work out...but most of the time it does. :)

Date: 2012-02-04 06:39 pm (UTC)
ext_153751: (Default)
From: [identity profile] gryphenn.livejournal.com
Spot on with the expressions. The teary eyed "no, you didn't" look that morphed into the "yes, you HAD to" from Dean to Sam when Sam shot the girl was just.... Ouch.

And that whoosh noise just before Dean noticed the papers moved was the same as the one when Dean noticed his beer was gone in Adv in Babysitting. Hmmm, Sam fluffed that off, too.

Where are the writers going with that?!?!

Date: 2012-02-04 08:00 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hells-half-acre.livejournal.com
I think Bobby is definitely still around in some capacity.

I think Jared and Jensen win all the awards for their facial expressions.

Date: 2012-02-04 10:42 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] morganlucas41.livejournal.com
I liked the episode overall, too, and agree with most of what you've said here.

Sam needs Dean alive. He doesn't need him sober. He doesn't need him happy. He just needs him to be alive. I think Sam has been putting up such a great front with the Hell-hallucinations thing that Dean has forgotten that he is Sam's Stone #1. And I think that's going to go come back and bite Dean (and Sam) in the ass in the future.

This is really interesting, and I agree - what with how well Sam's been acting, I'd forgotten that that was how Dean got him to be okay in the first place at all. So if Dean's not there, or if he's not Dean (I like what you also said about him acting like a caricature of himself), then that's going to cause Sam problems, too. And Sam's been acting like he's all fine, so this might end up blindsiding Dean. Great point - I like that you brought that up!

Date: 2012-02-04 11:00 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hells-half-acre.livejournal.com
And Sam's been acting like he's all fine, so this might end up blindsiding Dean. Great point - I like that you brought that up!

Thanks! Yeah, I'm really interested to see how this season plays out - exactly who cracks first and what the repercussions will be...

Date: 2012-02-05 06:53 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] franztastisch.livejournal.com
Late but whatever.

Meh, it was alright. Admittedly I watch it just after a very VERY good rugby game but still.

My points:
- I didn't like the really close camera work when Dean met Lidia (also side point: you are the only person I've ever seen who spells it "lidia"... apart from me and my friends, cos one of my friends is called Lidia and spells it like that rather that with a "y"). I thought it was really unnecessary.
- I thought it was intersting that it was sex magic. And I know they've done a few with sex magic, but on balance I think there should be more - if we're going to actual lore type stuff rather than make-a-family-friendly-tv-show stuff - because most old rituals are around sex and fertility. That being said, I thought it was a bit... well, meh. But then again, I rate all sex magic things against that bit in American Gods where that guy is basically sucked into that godesses vagina. Uh, yeah.
- I liked the bit at the end, Dean saying Sam is just as screwed up as Dean, just bigger. And Sam saying Dean can cope however he wants, just don't die. In fact, that bit made me think of [livejournal.com profile] candle_beck fics so much. It was so like something she would write. I'm going to guess that you've never read many - if any - candle_beck fics cos they're all Sam/Dean but... my god. They're about the only stories that actually make me believe that they could fall in love, cos it's screwed up and confusing and.. yeah. Anyway, it made me think of her fics. "the worst thing that could ever happen to me wouldn't happen to me, it would happen to you."
- Is it odd how you don't actually see any of Sam's coping mechanisms? Even though arguably, Sam had a hell of a lot more to cope with?
- I liked the effects for the monsters this week. The eye make up was cool.

Uh. Yeah I think that's it.

Date: 2012-02-05 09:34 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hells-half-acre.livejournal.com
I didn't like the really close camera work when Dean met Lidia

My sister's boyfriend felt the same way about those. This WAS a first-time director, so yeah...

also side point: you are the only person I've ever seen who spells it "lidia"... apart from me and my friends, cos one of my friends is called Lidia and spells it like that rather that with a "y"

Oh, well, I'm glad I'm not the only one. I realized afterward that it's probably meant to be Greek-like, so the "y" would make more sense when transposing into the roman alphabet...but yeah...my first instinct was "i"...might have something to do with my own name. ;P

That being said, I thought it was a bit... well, meh. But then again, I rate all sex magic things against that bit in American Gods where that guy is basically sucked into that godesses vagina. Uh, yeah.

Or the ifrit! Oh man, yeah...I mean, comparing sex magic to those passages is a bit unfair to anything else in the world...but I get your point.

It was so like something she would write. I'm going to guess that you've never read many - if any - candle_beck fics cos they're all Sam/Dean but... my god. They're about the only stories that actually make me believe that they could fall in love, cos it's screwed up and confusing and.. yeah. Anyway, it made me think of her fics. "the worst thing that could ever happen to me wouldn't happen to me, it would happen to you."

I actually have read candle_beck's fics...not for a while, and only a couple...but you are right. The reason I read them is because they had delicious broken quality that I love in fic, so I was able to overlook the whole wincest thing that I usually don't go for. (Like you said, those fics actually make you feel like it's possible.)

Is it odd how you don't actually see any of Sam's coping mechanisms? Even though arguably, Sam had a hell of a lot more to cope with?

Yes. It's driving me crazy a little bit. I'm really hoping that next week we get more of a Sam-centric episode, rather than another Dean-centric one. Judging from the preview, I think we might. *crosses fingers*

- I liked the effects for the monsters this week. The eye make up was cool.

Yes! Very neat!

Date: 2012-02-05 09:51 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] franztastisch.livejournal.com
I mean, comparing sex magic to those passages is a bit unfair to anything else in the world...but I get your point

Thats the problem with American Gods isn't it? You compare stuff to it and then you feel bad because NOTHNG COMPARES. Haha.

Oh man I could go on about candle_beck, but I won't cos I'm sure I'd bore you but GAH. And her podfics! She reads her own podfics. And I don't give two shits about podfics normally, but her voice. Just... listen to one for abot 5 minutes. I'm kinda obsessed. And that is by far the creepiest thing that I have ever admitted. Jesus Caroline. *hangs head in shame*

All I know about next week's episode is clowns and a "dick on Dick" comment that doesn't make sense to me because what? But yes. I want coping mechanisms! Though maybe they haven't addressed it because they basically set it up to be that Sam uses pain as a coping mechanism. And they can't have Sam cutting himself or whatever because they won't be able to get it past the censors and it'd upset people or whatever. Which... they have a point. But still. Sam's coping mechanisms! I want them. And I want them to fit.

An aside; I always thought they missed a trick with not having Mark Pellegrino just randomly sat in the background of shots throughout the season, just so you never forget what Sam is seeing all the time. Though really, it's not like they can just pay him to turn up in the back of shots randomly. I'd've just loved that.

Date: 2012-02-05 10:01 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hells-half-acre.livejournal.com
And her podfics! She reads her own podfics. And I don't give two shits about podfics normally, but her voice.

I have listened to some of her podfics too ;) Though, they tend to be short and I tend to try to listen to podfics that are an hour or more...but yes, very talented fan.

All I know about next week's episode is clowns and a "dick on Dick" comment that doesn't make sense to me because what? But yes. I want coping mechanisms!

Well, I'm hoping that Sam is still afraid of clowns, and we'll be able to see the coping mechanisms when they start failing...

As for the dick on dick comment. It's because in slang dick can mean "nothing"...so it's Sam's crude way of saying "we've got nothing on Dick." So, um, does that make sense now? I think Supernatural is trying to piss off the language-censors this season. :P

An aside; I always thought they missed a trick with not having Mark Pellegrino just randomly sat in the background of shots throughout the season, just so you never forget what Sam is seeing all the time. Though really, it's not like they can just pay him to turn up in the back of shots randomly. I'd've just loved that.

Or even just have Sam stare at a fixed point where nothing is every once in a while. They did it in 7x10, but they haven't done it since.



Date: 2012-02-05 10:22 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] franztastisch.livejournal.com
Ridiculously talented. I can fangirl other fans who are not you! (Seriously, my life. What? Shut up Caroline, your weird is showing.)

Oh. I see. Well, I'm going to assume that Brits don't say that cos I have never heard that before.

I just love the idea of Lucifer sitting in a chair in a diner ordering coffee. And then being the guy behind the desk at the police station. And then being the guy on the bench as they walk past, and the guy in the corner shop, and the guy in the forensics team. And Sam looks at him over his shoulder, or Dean's shoulder. And then he looks away because not there. And Dean gives him funny looks. And then works it out. And then looks sad. And then schools his features before Sam looks back. I just think that that whole thing going on in Sam's head is a major plot point that has been horribly underused. And I'm not just saying this because I'm a Sam girl.

Date: 2012-02-05 10:28 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hells-half-acre.livejournal.com
I just think that that whole thing going on in Sam's head is a major plot point that has been horribly underused. And I'm not just saying this because I'm a Sam girl.

I agree. Though, I understand why they can't pull that off due to Mark P's scheduling. That being said, I think that the fact that Dean ISN'T aware of how well or not well Sam is doing must be a plot-point as well...that whatever happens with Sam is going to blindside him, and that's just the way the writers want it...rather than the slow build.

Oh. I see. Well, I'm going to assume that Brits don't say that cos I have never heard that before.

I don't even know if Canadians say it...

Ridiculously talented. I can fangirl other fans who are not you! (Seriously, my life. What? Shut up Caroline, your weird is showing.)

Haha, I think I'd be a bit creeped out if you fangirled only me. :P

I fangirl missyjack, and I'm going to get to meet her this August, so I'm super jazzed about that.

Date: 2012-02-05 10:40 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] franztastisch.livejournal.com
I think they've made Supernatural... less complicated than S1-5. Because in 1-5 they had this plan. And then knew where everything was eventually going to end up, but on a 5 season basis. This is written only one season at a time. It's less... well thought out? I feel bad for criticising but... I'm getting to the point where I just miss how clever the show was during S1-5. :( I feel bad now.

What's Mark P in then?

But at least I talk to you. That's a little less creepy right? :P Haha no. It's you and candle_beck and longsufferingly. OH WAIT AND RATHERASTORY. How could I forget ratherastory?

Date: 2012-02-05 10:51 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hells-half-acre.livejournal.com
Oh man, I love Ratherastory. I met her last year at VanCon, and she is a DELIGHT.

Mark P is in Being Human (US)...and possibly some other stuff.

Yeah, I try not to be overly critical - plus, it's hard to judge something before it's over. I did think that despite it only being a 1 season story arc in season six, that that season was really ambitious and really well done.

But yeah, S1-5 were cool, because you were sitting there thinking "what is this building up to?" and there were these LONG unanswered questions about Sam's destiny and such. And the thing is, they just can't do that anymore. They've won the battle between destiny and free will. So, that can't be a factor anymore. Though, they COULD come up with another multi-season arc...but, yeah...I don't know. It'll be interesting to see where they go with this season, because it is a LOT like S1, only without the vague "I've got plans for you" stuff that Sam constantly got in S1. Anyway, yeah, I usually try to judge things when they are over, not while they are going. I will say that this season has been a lot rockier than previous seasons - but that could be because they are trying to build up to something again.

Date: 2012-02-05 11:04 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] franztastisch.livejournal.com
I try not to be overly critical too and I'm still watching so there's that.

I want to see where this is going but I feel like... it's lacking depth. I dunno. I'm very inarticulate in real life. Typing it makes it worse so I'll not try. :P But S6. Ambitious yes, but I'm not sure it was executed to it's fullest potential. And also I thought they (as the writers, rather than the characters) treated Cas pretty... not exactly badly, but just weirdly. I mean, all the characters reactions to it were in character (no matter what some people say. Tumblr I'm looking at you) but Cas was just... off. I think we've discussed this before though.

Ok you know what? Never mind. I've enjoyed large parts of S6&7. Maybe not in the same way as S1-5 but they were still fun and, most importantly, I'm still watching because I like the characters and want to know what happens, rather than watching to shit on everything once it's done. SO. PMA. *nods*


(Positive Mental Attitude. Just fyi)

Date: 2012-02-05 11:11 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hells-half-acre.livejournal.com
Agreed!

I think S6 had so many interesting things that could have been explored - so when it comes to criticizing it, the major one is "but they could have just spent the whole season on X and then X wouldn't have been short-shifted like it was...and you could say the same about Y and Z and Q too. In S7, so far, it's like they've gone the other direction. Let's spend a good four or five episodes on X and another four or five episodes on Y and so on... and people are like "wow, this is moving slowly, when is it going to get motha-effing psychotic in here?"

But that's just the way I see it.

I'm sure we have talked about Cas before. I think it was hard for them to turn such a fundamentally good character into someone who could make such a heinous mistake...just speaking of being ambitious. ;)

I try to stay away from Supernatural opinions on tumblr, because tumblr-people be crazy.

But, PMA FTW.
Edited Date: 2012-02-05 11:12 pm (UTC)

Date: 2012-02-05 11:41 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] franztastisch.livejournal.com
I think you maybe right. The S6 storyline could have been one and half seasons long and S7's slightly less than a season. Even out the pace and maybe give S6 more time to explore a couple of points.

Though you have one point there. They've set up a character to have elements of psychosis. You should then get those elements. Else what is this psychosis? They're dealing less with Sam and Hallucifer (I love that) than they did with Sam and Ruby. And Hallucifer should be there ALL THE TIME. Because he is IN SAM'S HEAD. So I think I agree on that point.

Yes Cas is a fundamentally good character and making him "go bad" is hard but I think... I think the Heaven and Cas plotline wasn't explored enough. We weren't given enough reason behind any of it. Even The Man Who Would Be King didn't give us enough of a reason (imo). Actually, Cas as a fundamentally good character to make a big mistake is really easy to do. It's influence and isolation and self doubt. They managed it with Sam and Ruby. And I know you don't want direct parallels between the two, but that's how to do that. Also I think Cas' downfall should have been done as part of the main plot, rather than in hints and flashbacks.

BUT PMA. So yeah. One day I will work out in my head what I think about this and then write it down and draw a line under it and not go back. I think that would be a good idea.

Date: 2012-02-05 11:45 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hells-half-acre.livejournal.com
Sounds like a plan.

I think they didn't draw out the Cas thing, because they wanted the BAM of revealing it all in one episode so late in the season. But, yeah, I do agree that the Sam and Ruby storyline was handled with much more subtly and thoroughness than some of the storylines as of late. Mind you, even with Sam and Ruby being handled so well, some fans still managed to completely miss the point :P But that's a criticism of fans, not the show.

Anyway, yeah, I sort of see S6 as running from the last few minutes of S5 to 7x02..and then after that S7 starts, and it's a bit of a weird looking kid right now, and we're all just waiting to see if he grows into his face. (weird analogy is weird)

Date: 2012-02-05 11:57 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] franztastisch.livejournal.com
Meh I think they had this weird situation of having their two main plot lines (Cas' betreyal and Sam's soul) not actually the main plot lines of the season. And by that I mean that they delt with them peripherally, rather than as the main plot. And the other funny thing about S6 was that by the end of it I also felt that Sam and Dean had been very static. As in, I learnt almost nothing more about them that what I had at the end of S5. For a story about Sam and Dean, it had very little Sam and Dean. But that's probably just me.

Ugh. Fans. Hahah I love fandom but sometimes....

Hahah oh my, your last sentence properly had me confsed for a bit. I was like, kid? What? Face? EH? What? Ohhhh. Right. :P

Date: 2012-02-06 02:07 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hells-half-acre.livejournal.com
It's true...it was sort of like a very long "how to get Sam back" season...so the relationship didn't change much. Especially since the same we got back half-way through was a Sam that was basically the Sam from S5. So, it was like S5 Sam and S6 Dean....I don't know, I don't know what I'm saying anymore. :P

Date: 2012-02-06 12:47 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] franztastisch.livejournal.com
Well, we're getting a bit more this season. Now all we need is Sam's coping mechanisms! :P

Date: 2012-02-06 02:19 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lusciniate.livejournal.com
Finally saw the episode and this:

and were distracted by the fact that up until the very end, anyway, the boys legs weren't in frame. So we were both giggling to ourselves, picturing them doing it pants-less.

I just had to say, that I had the same.. ermm.. problem. With both the thoughts whether there were any pants involved or not, and with giggling.

Apart from that - I was surprised how much I liked the episode. I usually also tend to go in with positive thoughts, but this time somehow I started watching without any emotions at all. Maybe that is another way how to do this..

But yeah, mostly stopped to post just because it was fun to see that there are some other people who had the same "problem" :)

Date: 2012-02-06 06:43 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hells-half-acre.livejournal.com
Haha, I'm glad my friend and I weren't the only ones who were a little bit distracted with that scene. ;)

I'm glad you liked the episode! I was actually going in a little doubtful, so I was pleasantly surprised when I enjoyed the episode so much. This week, I have my positive thoughts back.

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