Rewatch S6: Let It Bleed (6.21)

[hells_half_acre]

The depression continues!! Woo! 

Seriously, as much as I love these rewatches, this month has been SO BUSY with them...I'm looking forward to being done. This is always such a harder endeavour than I remember.

I DO enjoy it, but I guess usually I don't have a deadline. It takes me about 4 hours to go through an episode, type this post up, and then catalogue the clothes. It's quite the job.

Dean wore ONE thing throughout this entire episode, whereas Sam had three different outfits. Unbeknownst to anyone, I've slowly started making a list of clothes by episode over on the master post for If Clothes Could Talk, and I've noticed that Sam habitually wears more clothes than Dean in any given episode. My conclusion: Dean must smell a little. Hahaha.

Anyway, let's get on with the actual substance of the episode here...
.

Lovecraft! Typewriters! Man, I love typewriters...I still own one. It's in storage. I need more ribbon, plus, I'm far too used to the computer now and that precious precious backspace key.

I do like this guy that they got too play Lovecraft. He's very...good at being a Guy in the Past.

"You know what, at least you tried."

"Yeah, fat lot of good it did. Why'd he even come, right?"

-There's something I want to express here and I'm not sure how to put it into words, so bare with me. I find this line kind of heartbreaking, because it's basically the last time Cas has a CHANCE at mending fences (at least for the foreseeable future). At this point, Dean was betrayed, but not betrayed enough to be bitter, to withhold his forgiveness out of pure hurt.

"Our pal Cas didn't stop in last night just to mend fences."

"What'd he do?"

"Stole something."

"What?"

-The way Dean says 'what'd he do' reminds me of a parent getting a call from the principal's office. And it makes me wonder if Dean treating Cas more as a child this season has to do with Dean's year being a parent to Ben. He's sort of got that father-mentality now, as we saw in Two and a Half Men. I'm not saying it's the sole reason, but I'm saying that it could also be a factor.

"The journal of Moeshe Campbell"

"Moeshe?"

"Of the New York Campbells."

-This could very well fit into my never-to-be-written Dean in the New York Jewish Community pre-series fic. It's a shame I'm never going to write that thing. :P

"Or just read the copy I already made. Hi, glad to meet you, Bobby Singer, paranoid bastard."

-I love you Bobby.

"Phillips ain't his last name. It's Lovecraft."

"H.P. Lovecraft!? Let me see this!"

"Am I supposed to know who that is?"

"Horror writer? At the mountains of madness? They call it Cthulu?"

"Yeah, no, I was too busy having sex with women."

-I love Bobby's face when he realizes Dean doesn't know who Lovecraft is. Welcome to Supernatural, where Dean's a not-so-closet Trekkie, and Bobby and Sam are the literature geeks. ;)

Ben's reading Cthulu...I guess the maybe-product of Dean having sex with women takes after his maybe-uncle. :P

Lisa's dating a good looking dude....who is ABOUT TO DIE!

"What are they?"

"I don't know"

"Did you see their eyes? Teeth?"

...

"You with me Ben? Ben? Ben!"

-I didn't copy out the whole phone conversation, because I really just want to say that I love the FACES in during it. Especially Sam's, when he seems to realize before Dean does that Ben is no longer on the other side of the phone.

"Let's just skip to the part where I tell you how this goes. Your chocolates been in my peanut butter for far too long."

"I'm going to kill you."

"Dean, ever the wit. I've got your, what are they? Ex-lady friend and not-kid, and I'm keeping them until I'm satisfied that you've backed the hell off."

-First off, I love Crowley's lines. Secondly, I love the way Dean just states "I'm going to kill you," I find confidence sexy.

"You think Cas knows about this?"

"We got to assume he does."

-And here's where Cas has lost his chance - because, as I said before, in any relationship, once there's a betrayal, it's only natural to doubt EVERYTHING. If Castiel can cross that one line, whose to say he won't cross this one? And if he has, then there's no going back from that - because he'd have a hand in an attack on Dean's FAMILY.

"You're nuts if you think I'm going to let you do this alone. Bobby can take care of the case."

"Bobby, this is a big ball, we can't drop it now."

-This was very interesting, because I always assumed that Bobby was the more competent hunter among the three of them. But, Dean gives him the "this is important" speech, as though they have reason to worry that he might not be good enough for the job. At least, that's how I heard it. It could very well be though, that Bobby just excels at research and planning, but might be rusty on his "in the field" skills, given that he's more of a homebody than the boys.

"Crowley's alive"

"Well, you've been scooped. Cas already told me."

"Well did Cas tell you that he's Crowley's butt-buddy, you smug little dick."

"Excuse me?"

"Handshake deal, go halfsies on all the souls in Purgatory. He fill you in on that?"

"Yes, yes, of course he did, yes."

-Firstly, I love the way Jensen says "butt-buddy" because he ALMOST makes it sound like "fuck buddy" which I'm sure was the term the writers wanted to use. 
-Secondly, I love Sam saying "halfsies" like some teenage girl.
-Thirdly, Balthazar isn't that great of a liar either.

"Dean, let's just call Cas, maybe he doesn't know anything about-"

"We're not calling Cas."

"Dean-"

"WE'RE NOT CALLING CAS!"

-I think Dean doesn't want to call Cas in fear that he'll confirm that he knew about the kidnapping. As long as Dean doesn't see Cas, there's a chance that he's in the dark about it - there's a chance that he hasn't betrayed Dean, THAT MUCH...and Dean knows that it'd hurt him so badly to have that confirmed rather than just suspected.

"I hear you have a large collection of Lovecrafts private letters."

"World's largest!"

"Wow, you must be catnip to the ladies."

-I absolutely love this line.

"Why would they do that?"

"To see what's out there, maybe it's friendly-"

"It's never friendly! I mean...I would imagine."

-Again, I love Bobby.

"Well, it's not like an invisible guy could just pop in and steal them.."

-I like this line too. :P (Ok, I'll stop, sorry.)

"How's Dean?"

"About how you'd expect."

-Nearing psychotic? Yeah, that's what we all expected, sadly.

"Dean, you're what, running on whiskey and coffee and whatever else you're taking..."

"yeah, and?"

-Here we get another reference to Dean's dependence on substances. (In my opinion, coffee is a substance too - it's just one that's ingrained in society.)

"Lisa and Ben, wherever they are, that's 100% on me. If they are hurt-"

-Again, Dean is shouldering 100% of the responsibility. This isn't Cas's fault, for getting messed up with Crowley. This isn't Lisa and Ben's fault for making the decision to invite Dean into their lives...this is solely Dean's fault, as though he forced himself and his problems upon them.

"Castiel, it's Sam, so I don't know if you're in on this whole Ben Lisa thing, but if you have any heart whatsoever, bring them back to us man, come on, please, I'm begging you. I am begging you, you understand?"

-Oh Sam, always giving people the benefit of the doubt. I heart you.

Castiel: "You should have talked to me first"

Crowley: "I'd rather ask forgiveness than permission."

- I laughed at this line, just because this seems to be a favourite expression of Jared's. :P

"You are not to harm them, do you understand me?"

"You know what, you are maxed out on putting humans out of bounds."

-Poor Castiel. I don't even know what to say about this, besides the fact that Crowley is, quite purposefully, I think, driving the second-to-final nail in the coffin that is Dean and Castiel's friendship.

"Cas, Cas, Cas, so good of you to come."

"Balthazar, why did you summon me here."

-Because Stanley Park is PRETTY.

"*humourless laugh* You always were such a terrible liar. So it's true? Alright then, why?"

"It's a means to an end. Balthazar you understand that."

-We return to our theme of THE MEANS DO NOT JUSTIFY THE END.

"Just tell me that it's entirely risk free."

"I'm sorry I didn't tell you, but I need to know. Are you with me, or not?"

"You know, you may be certifiable, but alright - in for a penny in for a pound."

-What else is Balthazar going to say? He's friend is crazy and might kill him. I do think though, that as much as I never warmed to Balthazar, you can definitely see the disappointment that Castiel would do this, the realization that Balthazar did not know Cas as well as he thought he did.

Bobby is so good in this interview with the old man. That is all. 

"Hey, you want to see a picture?"

-Bobby totally slept with your mom!

"I didn't ask for your help."

"Well regardless, you're welcome."

"Why are you here"

"I had no idea Crowley would take Lisa and Ben"

"You don't believe me."

"I don't believe a word that's coming out of your mouth."

"I thought you said that we were like family. Well, I think that too. Shouldn't trust run both ways?"

"Cas, I just can't-"

"Dean, I do everything you ask, I always come when you call, and I am your friend. Still, despite your lack of faith in me, and now your threats. I just saved you, yet again, has anyone but your closest kin ever done more for you? All I ask is this one thing."

"Trust your plan to pop purgatory?"

-A couple of things to say about this. 1)Castiel trying to use family to get Dean to forgive him. It's a bold move, and may have worked under different circumstances, and if Castiel didn't ruin it in a minute...but I'll get to that. 2)Things would have been MUCH different if Castiel had come to Dean and Sam with the plan before they found out about it themselves. By lying about it, he MADE it a dirty little secret. He made it something that they couldn't trust. I'm not saying that it's a good plan and they would have been behind it, but they at least would have been behind Cas and willing to help him as a friend to get out of it or find a better solution. If trust runs both ways, then Cas should have trusted Sam and Dean with the plan from the beginning...the fact is, that he didn't, so therefore it's only natural that Dean not trust the plan that led Castiel to lie to them.


"I've earned that, Dean. I came to tell you that I will find Lisa and Ben, and I will bring them back. Stand behind me the one time I ask."

"You asking me to stand down?"

"Dean-"

"That's the same damn ransom note that Crowley handed me. You know that, right? Well, no thanks. I'll find them myself. In fact, why don't you go back to Crowley and tell him that I said you could both kiss my ass."

-And here Castiel ruins every chance he had, by using Lisa and Ben as a bargaining chip just like Crowley - or at least, SOUNDING like he is. 
-This scene is acted beautifully by Jensen, by the way. He's great at being able to show us how heartbroken Dean is, while still keeping Dean as stoic as possible.

"Not that I don't mind it, but you kind of fibbed about your age too."

"Just slightly, 900 years."

-Interesting. I wonder what kind of monster Eleanor Visyak was. She bled, so it wasn't a purgatory based monster - at least, that's my theory. She was SOMETHING in a meatsuit. 

"You're from freakin' purgatory. You never thought to mention that the whole time you slept with me."

"I am what I am, Bobby, and I happen to be a friend."

"You want to explain that to me?"

"I didn't ask those idiots to crack the door. I just happened to be the thing that fell through, and let me tell you something, you were lucky it was me."

"You saying you're on our side?"

"I'm saying I'm on MY side. I happen to like it here. I don't want to see the place turned into some bloody wasteland."

"So you killed H.P. Lovecraft?"

"Please, that guy couldn't even write hello."

- I love Dr. Viskjak. It's a shame she had to die. :(

"If I found you, he ain't far behind. At least let me take you somewhere, protect you."

"No, thanks, I have a couple other places lined up, don't worry. Bobby, you're just a man, I'm better off protecting myself."

-Again, we get the repeat of "you're just a man" which was what Castiel said to Dean in the last episode.

"Drinking your feelings, Sam? I thought that was your brother's bag."

"Desperate times."

-Another reference to Dean's substance abuse problems. 

"Why should we believe you?"

"Would you believe I had a shred of descency?"

"No."

"Aw, that hurts. Ok, you're right. It's survivable. You see, I asked Cas some questions and I disliked his answers. He seems awfully sure of himself for someone who wants to swallow a million nuclear reactors. I mean, these things can get a bit chernobyl..."

-It's interesting that the threat of swallowing souls was always put in terms of energy, and not of what the souls actually were. I think this is because up until this point, soul manipulations had only ever occurred with human souls, not monster. They, in fact, just did not know what could really happen, but nevertheless assumed that the dangers would be the same as using human souls.

"...the bad news is that I can't get them for you."

"Why not?"

"Because Crowley's angel-proofed the whole bloody building. I guess he doesn't trust Cas. It seems that marriage is going swimmingly."

-At least they had one indication that Castiel wasn't in on the kidnapping game, at least, not at the beginning. He still blew his chances by trying to get Dean to back down.

"All right boys, this is where I get off. God be with you and whathaveyou."

-I kind of like the fact that Balthazar gives them a "god be with you" even though he promptly realizes that it might be meaningless.

So, we enter the warehouse, find Lisa and Ben, and...

THIS IS WHY YOU MAKE YOUR GIRLFRIENDS GET TATTOOS! (Kids too!)

"You know, she's awake in here, your mom. I can hear her thinking."

"Don't listen to her, Ben"

"What? I was just going to tell him that you're his real daddy. Hahaha. Just kidding. Who knows who your real father is, your mom's a slut."

"You shut your mouth!"

"Oh what? Your her white knight now? She wishes she never met you, Dean, you're the worst mistake she ever made. Second worse, after keeping you."

"It's not your mom, Ben, she's lying."

"Says the C- lay with ten miles of daddy-issues. Whatever gets you through the night, tiny tim."

-This is the interesting thing about Dean. He wants Ben to be his kid, (but loves him the same whether he is or isn't), and he knows demon!Lisa is lying when she tells Ben that she regrets keeping Ben, yet...part of me thinks that Dean still believes the stuff she says about him. Even though we know that at least the criticism of the sex isn't true, since all Lisa's housewife friends were like "THE Dean" and giving him the sex-eyes.
-On the Is Ben Dean's Son debate: I actually don't want him to be. I really like the idea of family NOT being blood, or in fact, blood not mattering at all either way...so to me, the point is moot. Dean loves Ben as though he were his son and I think he always will, even though he only really spent a year with the kid, and that's all the matters.

"Go to hell you black-eyed bitch."

"You sure about that?" *stab* "Exercise me now, she's just a dead meatsuit."

-Oh man, the look on Ben and Dean's faces. Sad times forever.

"Ben, I'm sorry."

-Yeah, personally, if my maybe-father looked that broken, I'd probably accept his apology...not go and get a coke.

"What do you want?"

"Dean-"

"What do you want me to say? She'll be dead by midnight."

"I'm sorry."

"I don't care. It's too little too late."

"Ok, well, regardless, I didn't come for you."

"What do you mean?"

"She's fine now. She'll wake soon. Dean, I said I'm sorry, and I meant it."

"Thank you. I wish this changed anything."

"I know, so do I. All else aside, I just wanted to fix what I could."
-So, this also makes me sad, because now it's like Castiel has given up. Which, you know, you can't really blame the guy - but I think it's what leads him to take the action he takes in the next episode, which is just the supreme betrayal of Dean Winchester. And part of me thinks that maybe, MAYBE, if he hadn't given up on getting Dean's trust, he wouldn't have made that choice. It also makes me wonder if maybe he was planning his next move already - doing this last good deed for Dean, as a sort of farewell to the friendship.

"There's one more thing you could do for me."

-Oh Dean.

"Hi"

"Who are you?"

"I'm Dean. I'm the guy who hit you. I just uh, I lost control for a minute. And I just wanted to say that I'm sorry. I'm really happy you two are both okay. And ah, I'm glad you're life can get back to normal now."

"We're okay, so that's what's important, right?"

"Yeah, anyway, I'll leave you too alone. Take care of your mom."

-This is pretty much the exact same speech that Dean tried to give Lisa in 6x01, and she wouldn't let him. And here, she does let him, because he took away her choice not to. 
-I think Dean really does see it like a car crash - like he hit them with his brokenness and broke them too, and he wouldn't have done it if he had been thinking, if he hadn't been mad with grief and trying to fulfill Sam's final wish...if it had been his decision, he would have taken himself out of the world entirely and not inflicted himself on anyone, but he didn't, and he thinks that's wrong of him.
-So, when I, and a lot of people, first saw this episode, they wondered what the heck Dean thought he was accomplishing here - because removing their memories wouldn't keep them safe, because they could still be used against Dean, because DEAN still loved them. I think it was possibly missyjack who first pointed out to me that this isn't about being safe or not, this is about Dean punishing himself for getting them hurt. This is Dean ripping away the good things in his life because he doesn't deserve them, and the good things deserve better than him - no matter what they might think...and that's basically what he's done. He's taken away his option to ever return to Lisa and Ben, and he's taken away their ability to tell him that he's an idiot and that they love him.

Dean's coat is actually still bloodstained in that scene, at the bottom of the right sleeve, and on the left breast.

"Dean, you know, you have pulled some shady crap before, but this has got to be the worst - whitewashing their memories? Take it from somebody who knows-"

"You ever mention Lisa and Ben to me again, I will break your nose."

"Dean-"

"I'm not kidding."

-And you know why I think Sam shuts up? It's not the threat of his nose being broken. It's how completely broken Dean is....and how it was Sam's final wish that eventually led him here. We never see how much Sam knows about the year with Lisa and Ben, we never see how much he knows about why and how it ended. There's a very good possibility, that Sam is wondering just how much of this is his fault - about whether he had been wrong to tell Dean to go to them. Also, Sam has never had to deal with a heartbroken Dean before...he's had to deal with a grieving Dean, and a hell-ravaged Dean, but he's never had to deal with a Dean that just had his heart ripped out by an EXTREMELY bad breakup, which is basically what that was. Dean doesn't do relationships, and besides Cassie, and actually, probably including Cassie, Lisa was Dean's first REAL relationship - where she knew everything and still loved him. That is going to hurt no matter how it ends.

Ok! One more to go, and then I'll talk a bit about the special features, and then I'm done! Yay! All that will be left is to start posting the clothes. :)

Comments

[ramblin_rosie]

Y'know, your point about the assumptions Cas was making reminded me of this exchange from SGA, especially the bolded line:

ZELENKA [on the radio to McKay and Sheppard]: As power output increases, new and exotic particles are continuously created and destroyed inside the containment chamber, interacting with each other and with the field itself. Eventually particles are created that cannot be prevented in this space-time, and they breach the containment field as hard radiation.

McKAY: As long as I'm monitoring the energy output manually, I can stop that before it happens.

ZELENKA: You cannot predict something that is inherently unpredictable.

SHEPPARD: Rodney?

McKAY: I know what I'm doing.

ZELENKA: Rodney, I am trying to tell you as a friend, I have serious doubts.

McKAY: Well, you're wrong. I'm sorry, but there it is. And to bring this up now when I am just about to do this smacks of nothing but professional jealousy.

ZELENKA (angrily): Fine! Kill yourself, just like the Ancients did!

Sheppard manages to get McKay to listen in time to save both their lives (barely), but the experiment does go as badly sideways as Zelenka warned it might--and blows up 5/6ths of the uninhabited solar system where it was located.
Yeeeah. Cas should have watched more sci-fi.

And as much as I disliked Balthazar, I think he's actually the only angel to ever wish the boys Godspeed. I don't remember even Cas saying that to them.

[hells-half-acre.livejournal.com]

Oh man, yeah, it's exactly like that - You cannot predict something that is inherently unpredictable.

And as much as I disliked Balthazar, I think he's actually the only angel to ever wish the boys Godspeed. I don't remember even Cas saying that to them.

Yeah, it's almost a throwaway line, but I really liked him for it - it kind of endeared him a bit more, and also was a very slight reminder about who these beings are.

[vail-kagami.livejournal.com]

This is Dean ripping away the good things in his life because he doesn't deserve them, and the good things deserve better than him - no matter what they might think...and that's basically what he's done. He's taken away his option to ever return to Lisa and Ben, and he's taken away their ability to tell him that he's an idiot and that they love him.

I agree with your interpretation of Dean's motivation. It doesn't change the very big issues I have with this action, because Dean took their memories from them - and the fact that it wasn't to protect them but to punish himself makes it even worse. It wasn't really about them, it was about him, and they didn't get a say in it.

You don't make a decision like that about someone else's life unless you absolutely, life-or-death/end of the the world situation, have to.

I don't think Dean is aware of that, though - he's never been able to see things from any perspective but his own.

I love that Sam called him out on it, because that means the show is aware of these issues and doesn't try to sell it as a selfless act of mercy. And despite my issues, I love that Sam shuts up when Dean tells him to because even though he doesn't like it, he can see Dean is suffering and is willing to put his own issues aside for his brother's sake.

[hells-half-acre.livejournal.com]

It doesn't change the very big issues I have with this action, because Dean took their memories from them - and the fact that it wasn't to protect them but to punish himself makes it even worse. It wasn't really about them, it was about him, and they didn't get a say in it.

Oh yeah, definitely. It was a bastard move for sure.

I don't think Dean is aware of that, though - he's never been able to see things from any perspective but his own.

Yes, that's always been one of Dean's flaws. It's one of the reasons he and Sam clash so much too.

I love that Sam called him out on it, because that means the show is aware of these issues and doesn't try to sell it as a selfless act of mercy.

Indeed, there's nothing merciful about it. I think there would be outrage if they had tried to sell it as such.

And despite my issues, I love that Sam shuts up when Dean tells him to because even though he doesn't like it, he can see Dean is suffering and is willing to put his own issues aside for his brother's sake.

Very true.

[percysowner.livejournal.com]

)Things would have been MUCH different if Castiel had come to Dean and Sam with the plan before they found out about it themselves. By lying about it, he MADE it a dirty little secret.

Interestingly, Dean makes the same mistake with Amy. He MADE Amy's death a dirty little secret. He could have told Sam that Sam was hallucinating and that Sam had trusted monsters before and been burnt. He could have left the trust Sam issues out and simply pointed out that Amy had killed once and that killing is the bright line that can not be breached (unless you're a cute doggie woggie named Lucky, yeah I do hold grudges). Sam and Dean could have talked about killing Amy and Dean could have killed her and I think the fallout would have been far less, but Dean doesn't like to disappoint Sam, so he followed in Castiel's footsteps, forgetting how Cas's lies broke the trust more than his plan did.

[hells-half-acre.livejournal.com]

Very good point.

[galwithglasses.livejournal.com]

I really like Bobby's interview with the sweet old man and I really didn't see that bit with Ellie coming. I liked her too.

The bit at the end with Dean saying good-bye to Lisa and Ben is so freakin' sad. The way Jensen had his voice break on the look after your Mom bit is so crushing. It would be one of the things Dean would focus on with his protect everybody attitude. The memory wipe is a rotten thing to do for a lot of reasons but I get why Dean did it. He removes himself from their lives which I agree is self-punishment on Dean's part. Also, he wipes the memories of demon possession and the whole knowledge that there is the extra scary world out there. He also makes sure that Ben isn't going to follow him into a life hunting which he was pretty adamant about.

[hells-half-acre.livejournal.com]

Very true. Especially about how Dean would see the memory wipe as wiping the knowledge of the preternatural away as a good thing. He's told Sam before that he's wished that kind of innocence for Sam, it's only natural that he would also want Ben to not have the memory of it.

[nwspaprtaxis.livejournal.com]

About this: This could very well fit into my never-to-be-written Dean in the New York Jewish Community pre-series fic. It's a shame I'm never going to write that thing. :P YOU NEED TO WRITE THIS!!!!! *flails* Also? It keeps staring at me. BECAUSE OH MY GOD THERE'D BE SUCH POTENTIAL FOR A GOLEM!!!!!!

Also? I actually watched this ep - I skipped the whole season and watched this one. *shrugs*

"What are they?" / "I don't know" / "Did you see their eyes? Teeth?" / ... / "You with me Ben? Ben? Ben!" Oh my god... I have infinite love for this phone call. I love how Ben trusts Dean enough to call him when everything goes to shit and he's scared and he's knows it's BAD THINGS. And Dean's so great here. He's a total father figure while simultaneously going into Hunter-mode, asking about eyes and teeth. Also, as you said, all the expressions are fantastic here... Ben's included. But you're right. Sam seems to figure out a split-second earlier than Dean when Ben's no longer on the line but JA's faaaaaaaaace slams it out of the park. Actually, JA pretty much slams a home run this entire ep.


I think Dean doesn't want to call Cas in fear that he'll confirm that he knew about the kidnapping. As long as Dean doesn't see Cas, there's a chance that he's in the dark about it - there's a chance that he hasn't betrayed Dean, THAT MUCH...and Dean knows that it'd hurt him so badly to have that confirmed rather than just suspected. This was my impression too - that Dean doesn't WANT to know. That as long as he doesn't see Cas, as long as he doesn't get that confirmation, there's that tiny tiny slim chance of it not being real. And Dean trusts so few people as it is, and he considers even fewer to be his family... including Ben and Lisa, his count is about five at this point, not including those who've died. So for someone to betray Dean and Dean's trust when Dean would do *anything* for them cuts far far deeper into Dean than it normally would and I get Dean here. Dean WANTS to still trust Cas and he does, up until the last second... and when Dean asks Cas not to do whatever he's planning with Crowley, he's PLEADING... which isn't something he normally stoops to. So, here, he doesn't want to ask Cas because he doesn't want to get that final confirmation that... yeah, Cas betrayed him and no, Cas isn't coming.


Again, Dean is shouldering 100% of the responsibility. This isn't Cas's fault, for getting messed up with Crowley. This isn't Lisa and Ben's fault for making the decision to invite Dean into their lives...this is solely Dean's fault, as though he forced himself and his problems upon them. This is EXACTLY how I see Dean and why Dean hurts so much.... He never blames or parcels fault on anyone. He doesn't even blame circumstance and fortune. Instead he accepts full responsibility and he pays for it. With interest. And in Dean's eyes, he's 90% crap and he is to blame for everything because if he wasn't around, none of it would've happened. Part of this is John's fault... watch how John places full blame and full responsibility on Dean's shoulders in SOMETHING WICKED. Dean doesn't know any other way but to accept full responsibility and to be the one to fix everything. It's one of Dean's deepest character flaws and in a way it's why he's one of the most forgiving and loving characters... And I keep hoping for Sam to help Dean unload some of that burden that's obviously wearing down on him by sorting through it and telling him what he doesn't need to carry.


This scene is acted beautifully by Jensen, by the way. He's great at being able to show us how heartbroken Dean is, while still keeping Dean as stoic as possible. Oh. My. GAWD. JA nearly made me cry right here. He was brilliant! Also? When he asks Cas of his favor in the hospital... his face is so broken. He makes us believe Dean's heartbreak beyond all doubt.

[nwspaprtaxis.livejournal.com]

this isn't about being safe or not, this is about Dean punishing himself for getting them hurt. This is Dean ripping away the good things in his life because he doesn't deserve them, and the good things deserve better than him - no matter what they might think...and that's basically what he's done. He's taken away his option to ever return to Lisa and Ben, and he's taken away their ability to tell him that he's an idiot and that they love him. This was exactly how I interpreted the scene. I never saw it as Dean removing their memories to keep them safe. Well, he was, but it was more about self-punishment. He was keeping them safe from DEAN. Yes, because Dean still cares about them, they could potentially be used by baddies, but it's more about keeping them safe from the trainwreck that is Dean Winchester. By erasing their memories of him, he's giving them their normal lives back. There are no demons, no angels, no bad things, and there is no hunters crawling back to them in the middle of the night to derail their world. He's effectively erasing and destroying all option of ever returning to their lives and he can't ruin their lives by his existence. In Dean's eyes, he's letting them go and it's a form of self-punishment because he obviously can't have anything good in life because, based on the way he sees it, he breaks everything he's given and this is just going to fix the fuck-up he did over the past year in Lisa and Ben's lives. He doesn't see himself as worthy or deserving of anything good in the world... and that good things should be as separate from him as possible. I saw it as an incredible act of sacrifice. Not because Lisa and Ben are better off without him, but because Dean's effectively giving up himself for the cause again. Dean is essentially taking more of himself and giving it away. And JA plays the scene brilliantly.... he manages to convey Dean's heartbreak and hold everything back until he walks away. And by the time he gets to the car, he's *wrecked* and broken. Which brings me to the next point...

[nwspaprtaxis.livejournal.com]

And you know why I think Sam shuts up? It's not the threat of his nose being broken. It's how completely broken Dean is....and how it was Sam's final wish that eventually led him here. ... Also, Sam has never had to deal with a heartbroken Dean before...he's had to deal with a grieving Dean, and a hell-ravaged Dean, but he's never had to deal with a Dean that just had his heart ripped out ... Dean doesn't do relationships, and besides Cassie, and actually, probably including Cassie, Lisa was Dean's first REAL relationship - where she knew everything and still loved him. That is going to hurt no matter how it ends. I completely agree with this. I think Lisa was Dean's first REAL relationship. Cassie was a fling and I believe he loved her, but in terms of a real adult relationship that was built on an equal foundation... Lisa was it. She was there when he was decimated by Sam's death and she was the one who held him together and slowly helped him piece together what was left of his heart. In this exchange in the car, Dean is broken and he just ripped out his own heart.... And it's so painfully clear in his eyes. Sam doesn't shut up until he gets a really good look at Dean's face and it's not the threat that makes Sam shut up. It's the raw emotion and knowledge in Dean's eyes. Dean *knows* what he's done. He's not proud of it and he is fully aware about whitewashing memories being undermining. Dean didn't ask Cas to erase their memories lightly... it was a decision he reached after deliberation and one where he could see no other answer - much like when he traded his soul for Sam. In a way, he does the same here... only in a different form. He cuts himself out of their lives and he knows he has to live with it and the knowledge that he caused everything. Also? He's the only one who remembers that year now - the good and the bad. While there was no good ending here for Dean, he ultimately does it with full knowledge and deliberation and he's all too aware of the implications. It was not a choice easily or lightly made and I think most people missed that - Dean isn't one for impulses... unless it comes to those he loves and he will always sacrifice himself first. I think Sam caught a glimpse of just how wrecked, broken, and in pain Dean was at the moment and while he doesn't agree, it isn't the time to push the issue and there never will be a time to address it because anything he might say, Dean already knows and he's paying the dues. Also? Sam, I think, never seen Dean this broken. Lisa has because this was where Dean was after Sam threw himself into the pit... and he has the maturity and wisdom to back off and allow his brother to shove it down and away. Not to mention there must've been some of that residual shock of seeing Dean so heartbroken and HUMAN... of knowing Dean had been in love and been loved in return... which was what he wanted. It's not Sam's fault, but I do think Sam feels he has to give Dean at least this - whatever tiny shred of dignity Dean can salvage by Sam backing off and never mentioning it again. Also? I think Sam's a bit startled by how raw Dean is - much like a child discovering his or her parent grieving.

[4422shini.livejournal.com]

"Says the C- lay with ten miles of daddy-issues. Whatever gets you through the night, tiny tim."
-This is the interesting thing about Dean. He wants Ben to be his kid, (but loves him the same whether he is or isn't), and he knows demon!Lisa is lying when she tells Ben that she regrets keeping Ben, yet...part of me thinks that Dean still believes the stuff she says about him. Even though we know that at least the criticism of the sex isn't true, since all Lisa's housewife friends were like "THE Dean" and giving him the sex-eyes.

Hmmm, I didn't actually consider the line that way. In my mind, I assumed Demon!Lisa was remarking more on Dean's PTSD and inability to get it up, or keep it up, or inability to not cry while he's having sex. Honestly (and this is probably a pretty revealing comment about me) but I was kind of hoping that she meant that and that it was true that Dean was having performance issues since settling down into domesticity. I mean, I assume normally he's fantastic (or he thinks he is. Like all guys do!), hence the season 2 sexy times with Dean. But I think he came to Lisa fairly broken and for some reason, I find that image really pleasing (sadist much?).

[hells-half-acre.livejournal.com]

Hmmm, good point. Also, given that he's prone to alcoholism (which has gotten steadily worse), that would also affect performance adversely.

So, yeah, there's a good chance that it DID strike a nerve. Poor boy.

[borgmama1of5.livejournal.com]

Just rewatched this episode. In some ways this is the worst episode to rewatch, it hurts so much to see Dean cut Lisa and Ben out of his life--his brokenness about it is crushing, and yet it's also infuriating because, like others have said, Dean was usurping Lisa and Ben's agency and deciding for them, and that was just wrong!

I can't get over that Dean in his selfishness leaves them wide open to anything that wants to use them as a bargaining chip against him in the future! Just because they don't remember doesn't protect them at all!

One of the things I want most in season 13 is for Dean to run into them again and there be fallout from what he did (and maybe it gets reversed? They'd still be pissed as hell but at least they'd know!)

[hells-half-acre.livejournal.com]

I think the problem with Lisa and Ben is that once they were there - there was no way to get rid of them. Like... you couldn't actually have a family for Dean, and they'd never stop BEING a family unless they were forcibly removed from his life.

I mean, YES, you could bring them back and have them then CHOOSE to leave forever, and the effect would be the same (with less plot holes), but at the same time, I sort of feel like it's just better to live with the plot holes we have and pretend they aren't there.

Because I fully believe that Sara/the writers believed that for some reason the Braeden's being oblivious meant that they were safe - even though that makes absolutely no sense if you think about it longer than 10 seconds. So, it's an accident of writing rather than an actual... fact in the show, if that makes any sense.

I mean, I'm not saying NEVER, but to me Lisa and Ben are like Lucifer, their time has ended, their storyline, for better or for worse, concluded, and I'd prefer it to stay that way. Of course, good writing is good writing, and if someone figured out how to do it WELL, then SURE... but it'd have to be GOLD in order for me to get on board at this point.

Because they're either coming back to be permanent story again, or they're coming back to yell at Dean and then break is heart again, and I don't see any middle ground at all on that.

Though, I'm all for fics that have them remembering - those are fun. I just don't want to see it in show. (Granted, I did see one where they remembered, decided to stay away, and Dean NEVER KNEW they remembered - I'd be fine if show wanted to do that - but I don't see that as something that anyone else would be satisfied with, as they'd constantly be waiting for Dean to find out, like it was an unsolved subplot rather than a concluded one.)