hells_half_acre: (Think Sam Think!)
[personal profile] hells_half_acre
The Nature of Death on Supernatural
(AKA: How my former love of the anime Bleach affects my Supernatural world-view)

Yesterday, I was talking to someone in comments on "To Being Half a Person" about S6. They expressed disappointment that God brought Cas back at the end of S5, but (so far) did not bring Gabriel back.

This got me thinking that I should post how *I* understand the way death works on Supernatural. To do so, I'm going to be using screen caps from this anime I used to watch called Bleach. You don't need to know anything about Bleach to understand though....

Basically, in my mind the Supernatural-universe looks like this:


Blue is the living/human souls. 
Brown is the dead/creatures/demons/etc. 
The space within the hourglass is made up of those places over which God has dominion. 
The space outside the hourglass is OUTSIDE God's dominion - It doesn't exist. It is outside the known universe. It is nothing.

When someone is killed by natural means, they are still WITHIN the hourglass. When Sam and Dean were in hell/heaven, they were still in the hourglass. Creatures in purgatory are still in the hourglass. Both times Cas was killed, he was exploded - they've never said where angels go when they are exploded, but it's my opinion that they are STILL IN THE HOURGLASS. 
 
Here, let me write all over this thing for you:
 
It's MY opinion that when something is killed by the Colt, the Knife, or Sam's Mind - they are taken OUT of the hourglass. They are cast into nothingness - they are immediately and irreversibly doomed to confirm the atheist's world-view, because they quite simply cease to be.
 
I believe that angels that are killed with the angel killing swords are also thrown out of the hourglass - they cease to be. God CANNOT bring them back.
 
So, basically you have this:
 
The brown liquid outside of the glass represents those beings that have been destroyed by the Colt, Knife, Angel Killing Sword, or Sam's Mind. God cannot bring those beings back to life. There is now a pocket of air where they once existed inside the hourglass.
 
Only, unlike in Bleach (whence this screencap comes) this does not destroy the world....or at least, not that we've been told so far.
 
But that, my friends, is why I don't believe Gabriel will ever come back....or Ruby, or Azazel, or Zachariah, or Alistair, or Lilith....they are simply gone. 
 
Mind you, the show could still prove me wrong - Supernatural has never liked following it's own rules after all - but I think personally, even though I dearly love Gabriel, I'd be disappointed if they did prove me wrong. In order for death to be a threat SOME death has to still be permanent and irreversible.
 
On a related note: Bleach is a pretty good anime for the first 38 episodes or so...then it falls into the common ongoing-anime trap and gets too convoluted and causes me to lose interest. Uryu Ishida is my favorite character. He is the one that can remove things from the hourglass and thus destroy the world....and he does it with the power of ARCHERY! What's not to love?!
 

But that's just my opinion...
 

Date: 2011-04-10 10:52 pm (UTC)
liliaeth: (Default)
From: [personal profile] liliaeth
I think another reason why God hasn't brought Gabriel back is because well... I don't think he ever died in the first place.

I mean this is the guy who faked his death in his first appearance on the show. The Trickster.

When Lucifer talked about how he'd taught Gabriel all of his tricks I couldn't help question that, since well, he's been locked up for a long time while Gabriel was learning new tricks while playing with the pagans.

Add to that the fact of how easily Gabriel was killed, with no real damage to the surrounding area (something I find hard to believe considering what we've been told of what would happen as a consequence of the battle between Micheal and Lucifer). All of which leaves me to think that Gabriel quite simply played his ultimate trick, allowing Lucifer to think he killed him, so he could slip out of sight, and stop the Winchesters or anyone else from bothering him.

I do hope that if or when SPN brings him back, they go with this excuse, cause you're right, it's just no fun when every death can just be reversed.
Edited Date: 2011-04-10 10:53 pm (UTC)

Date: 2011-04-10 10:58 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hells-half-acre.livejournal.com
YES!

This is the ONLY excuse I would accept for Gabriel coming back, because I agree with all your points. If Gabriel could use one clone against Lucifer, he could use two and put on a proper show.

Not to mention the fact that we know that angels CAN effectively fake their own deaths - Balthazar had done it before we even met him. Whereas Gabriel may have just disappeared from Heaven one day, Balthazar fooled people enough that Castiel mourned for him.

Anyway, yes, Gabriel could come back under that excuse, but no other - in my opinion, anyway.

Date: 2011-04-11 07:33 am (UTC)
liliaeth: (Default)
From: [personal profile] liliaeth
Like he told the Winchesters after they saw Kali killing him with his angel killing sword: "Why would I give her the real deal, that thing could kill me"

(or something like that*g*)

Date: 2011-04-10 10:53 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] borgmama1of5.livejournal.com
I agree with your interpretation. And that it would be a cheat to bring Gabriel back, unfortunately.

Date: 2011-04-10 11:03 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hells-half-acre.livejournal.com
Thanks. It's sad because we like him...but then, we like a lot of people who are dead. :P

Date: 2011-04-10 11:10 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] claudiapriscus.livejournal.com
I don't think the show has thought it through that far. They'll bring back anyone they feel like bringing back, though thankfully demons haven't been part of that (we'll see where this purgatory thing goes.) My feeling is that they had the vague idea that if demons could bring humans back to life, so could angels, and since angels were created by God, if he felt like bringing them back he could do so.

Date: 2011-04-10 11:12 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hells-half-acre.livejournal.com
Well, whether they've thought about it or not, I hope they don't start bringing back those-who-I-believe-are-the-permanently-dead. Otherwise, I'll be pissed off.

Date: 2011-04-11 02:41 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] claudiapriscus.livejournal.com
Hah, yeah. THat's the worst thing about conflicts with head-canon. It's what makes the most sense, it's what you've been operating on...and but unlike with a retcon, all you can say is, "well, my idea was better." (The whole god/chuck thing is one of my biggest pet peeves in that area.)

Date: 2011-04-11 02:43 am (UTC)

Date: 2011-04-11 12:14 am (UTC)
ext_29986: (Duct-tape Cas!)
From: [identity profile] fannishliss.livejournal.com
first off, I totally agree with Lilaeth regarding the poss. of G faking own death. I thought this at the time and would have no problem if it came around.

second of all, I love your hourglass idea and the GOD HATH NO DOMINION zone. I also enjoy the idea of the natural order being thrown off in terms of your diagram. cool.

In terms of storytelling it is very helpful that there is at least some zone where God hath no dominion.

I also fully agree that heaven hell and purgatory are all basically the same zone. I would also add, faerie, just because that's what Neil Gaiman derived from the lore, and we all know that Show are a pack of Mad Neilies. :D

Date: 2011-04-11 12:16 am (UTC)
ext_29986: (Zoe!)
From: [identity profile] fannishliss.livejournal.com
But wait! How did God bring back Castiel again?? Did Lucifer and Raphael have a soft spot for him that they exploded him instead of using their swords?

Michael killed Anna with fire. She could also come back??

Date: 2011-04-11 12:20 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hells-half-acre.livejournal.com
Apparently they weren't in the mood for close combat, so they just exploded him instead of using the angel killing sword.

And yeah, unless we're told otherwise, Anna COULD still be brought back (but probably ONLY by God).

Date: 2011-04-11 12:18 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hells-half-acre.livejournal.com
Agreed!

I forgot about the faerie zone - but yeah, it's added in there with hell and purgatory and all that stuff.

Date: 2011-04-11 12:42 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] khek.livejournal.com
I like your theory, but think the obliterated angels/demons/Gabriel will depend on where the show goes with Purgatory. They could make Purgatory somehow the place for everything that's not in Heaven or Hell...and have some kind of hierarchy similar to heaven/earth/hell there. If they do that...

I have wondered if Gabriel faked his death. The fact that his image was interacting with the Winchesters (through the porn DVDs) could mean that his consciousness was somehow aware and functioning, somewhere. Plus...I really liked the Trickster/Gabriel. I want him to still be alive.

Date: 2011-04-11 02:43 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hells-half-acre.livejournal.com
True true, it really does depend on what they do with Purgatory. For instance, I'm not sure if burning a demons bones permanently kills them or sends them to purgatory...

I want Gabriel to be alive too - I really thought that when they played that DVD there would be some trick about it that would bring him back.

Date: 2011-04-11 04:41 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mymuseandi.livejournal.com
This discussion always confuse me, mainly because canon goes back and forth on the subjects, reverses over their own claims to forward the story arc, speeds forward to gloss over the vague zones, swerves the sharp corners to avoid crashing on their own words, etc.

F1 is still clearly on my mind :p

Anyway, I like your explanation, because in the show it's stated that God is not as omnipotent as everyone is led to believe, and there are some things that God couldn't touch even with all his powers. But if angels were killed by the swords couldn't come back, and demons were killed by bullets or the dagger are dead dead, then why does show still bring back Purgatory? Shouldn't Purgatory be outside the hourglass, and i imagine all the 'dead' angels and demons are having their own little universe there, or something like that. Which is why Crowley wants to find it, pronto.

Show needs to be clearer on their canon LOL

Date: 2011-04-11 04:53 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hells-half-acre.livejournal.com
I was about to say "I do not understand your reference" but then I reread and put it together :P Slow hells_half_acre is slow. You are talking about racing - which probably recently had some sort of important race...

See, I don't think that the show goes back and forth as much as other people seem to think it does. Mind you, it still could prove me wrong and go back on all of this. (And I must admit that when the angels brought back Adam after he had been salted and burned, I was a little like: Really? Well, alright, I guess.)

As of right now, I DON'T think Purgatory contains anything killed by the Colt, Knife, Sam's Mind, or Angel-Killing Sword. So far, all we know is that Purgatory contains the souls of MONSTERS. That is - souls that were never human (or at the very least, were only human until they were turned into Vampires/Werewolves/SkinWalkers/Wendigos...) The show didn't "bring back Purgatory" they INTRODUCED it...before Purgatory, we didn't know where the monsters went once Sam and Dean killed them - we assumed they went to hell - the show has so far just said "Nope! They went to Purgatory!" So, nothing's been changed in terms of world-view - they've actually just informed us of more.

But, like I said, I could still be proven wrong with all this, and they COULD decide to have Azazel and Gabriel hanging out in Purgatory wondering why their gods have forsaken them.

Date: 2011-04-11 06:45 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mymuseandi.livejournal.com
My apologies for confusing you. Yup, it's racing, there was a race yesterday and i was reading the news about it.. :)

Aaahh, okay, i get it. I always interpreted when they say monsters as those that include everything non-human. Which includes angels and demons and fairies and what have you. which means that soulless!Sam is considered non-human by the monsters' standards, right? Because the alpha vamp includes him when talking about where they all will go when they died.

The main story arc for season 6 is a bit confusing for me, i need to shake out the cobwebs of my brain to keep up sometimes LOL

Date: 2011-04-11 06:58 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hells-half-acre.livejournal.com
Oh yeah, demons don't count as monsters, because they are humans who have been twisted by hell - not humans that became 'monsters' on earth. Does that make sense?

Angels, I honestly don't know where they go when they are exploded - maybe there's a subset of heaven? or maybe they go to purgatory?...as far as we know, angels were never human (unlike demons and some monsters).

I guess it is kind of confusing. Basically, you have 4 categories of "creature" on Supernatural. Angels, Demons, humans who became monsters (vampires, werewolves, skinwalkers...), and monsters that were born monsters (faerie, pagan gods, etc). Both monster categories go to purgatory when they die. Demons go to hell. Angels go ???.

And yeah, I guess soulless!Sam was technically a monster, because he was not in procession of a human soul. As far as we know, only human souls can go to heaven when they die. So, if soulless!Sam died, I guess he would either cease to exist, or he'd go to purgatory?

Anyway....we're needlessly complicating this...my main point of the post was that I don't believe that people killed by the Colt, Knife, Sam's Mind, or the Angel-Killing sword, can come back...they're outside the realm of God's control.

Date: 2011-04-13 07:27 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] isoldam.livejournal.com
Interesting. I like the hourglass metaphor, but I'm not so sure about the "God Hath No Dominion" part. I don't remember seeing anything in the show that limits the Supernatural version of God's power in that way. If God made the creation inside the hourglass, wouldn't he have to have made it out of the nothingness outside the hourglass? Wouldn't that mean that he does have dominion over that nothingness? Just because we haven't seen Gabriel resurrected does not prove that God could not do so if he wanted to. He created Gabriel out of nothingness in the first place, there is no reason he couldn't do it again.

I've wondered in the past if the God of the Supernatural 'verse is the Jewish/Christian/Islamic God or not. (He seems most like the Jewish version of God to me.) All of those religions insist that God is absolute and all-powerful. If the Supernatural God does have limits on his powers, then he is not the god that we are familiar with in temple/Sunday school. If you're right, maybe the Supernatural 'verse God is just the biggest pagan god on the block?

Date: 2011-04-13 04:53 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hells-half-acre.livejournal.com
If the Supernatural God does have limits on his powers, then he is not the god that we are familiar with in temple/Sunday school. If you're right, maybe the Supernatural 'verse God is just the biggest pagan god on the block?

This is exactly what I believe (about the universe on the show) - hence the meta explaining it. I know the SHOW hasn't clearly stated that God isn't all powerful - but the fact that they have weapons that can remove souls (and creatures' souls) from the cosmos, reminded me of Bleach and this specific world-view...which is why I've adopted it for Supernatural as well (in my head).

Supernatural has already gone in a different direction than Judiasm/Christianity/Islam, because they have stated that God is mortal and that Death will outlast him (if only by seconds) and that Death will reap God as well...so, I don't think it's too much of a stretch to speculate that there are limits to God's power on the show.

Don't forget that Castiel informed Dean that the bible "gets more wrong than it does right" - I think they've made it quite clear on the show that although they are playing with familiar religious figures and names, they are NOT the religious figures/names from our temple/sunday school.

We haven't had confirmation on the creation story in Supernatural either - so we don't know whether God existed before the universe or whether God was created at the same time as the universe INSIDE the universe and therefore only has control of the universe...so yeah, it's all speculation because Supernatural ALWAYS puts a twist on something that makes it different than our beliefs, even God.

Personally though, even if the show proves this world-view false, I'll still be pissed off if they bring Gabriel/Ruby/Lilith etc... back - I mean, I liked Gabriel and everything - but there has to be SOME permanent death.

Date: 2011-04-15 02:22 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] isoldam.livejournal.com
Sorry for the deleted post. I accidentally posted while I was still writing.

God is mortal and that Death will outlast him (if only by seconds) and that Death will reap God as well...so, I don't think it's too much of a stretch to speculate that there are limits to God's power on the show.

That statement can interpreted in multiple ways, including as a reference to Jesus.

In any case, I don't see any reason that death has to be permanent in SPN world, especially for Gabriel. I'd rather have him back. I get more pissed off at the writers for killing every damn character that I like. The occasional death for the sake of drama is fine, but since they kill almost everyone it's just boring and predictable.

Date: 2011-04-15 04:49 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hells-half-acre.livejournal.com
Fair enough. I understand if you just don't want death to be permanent. I'm just saying that I DO, and that I'll be pissed off if it isn't. So, I guess, I'll be pissed off if it isn't, and you'll be pissed off if it is...and either way, the show is damned if they do, damned if they don't.

I suppose this all could have been avoided if they hadn't killed him in the first place, or if they bring Gabriel back and say that he faked his original death - that'd be fine.

That statement can interpreted in multiple ways, including as a reference to Jesus.

I suppose, but I really don't think it was. They'd never brought up Jesus before (a reference to Luke and a reference to Mary Magdalene, but that was it)...and I really had the feeling that if Death was talking about God-God there, not Jesus-God. But hey, whatever floats your boat.

Like I said, this is just how *I* view the show - I'm not saying it's how the show *IS*, because they've never explicitly stated. This is just what I've interpreted, and what informs my reviews and opinions on the episodes.

Date: 2011-04-19 08:11 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] marlowe78.livejournal.com
Cool idea, with the hourglass.

So, if Dean and Sam behead a vampire or salt and burn a corpse to get rid of the ghost, they end up in Purgatory, but if the Colt was involved, or the knife, the "monster" would be kinda kicked out of the glass?

Huh.

Not sure if I see it the same way, I never put much thought into it - into God (except that I KNOW Chuck wasn't God, just... someone else.) in the SPN-universe.

But I completely agree that they should stick with keeping some people dead. It's cheating to bring them back, and sad as it is, Gabriel is one of them.

I can deal with them coming in form of Alternate Realities or dreams or Heaven (Ash) but that's it. I'm still mad that they resurrected Adam, though I think it could've been due to the fact that they needed base for a 6th season.

So yeah. "What's dead should stay dead" (except for Sam and Dean!)

Date: 2011-04-19 09:03 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hells-half-acre.livejournal.com
So, if Dean and Sam behead a vampire or salt and burn a corpse to get rid of the ghost, they end up in Purgatory, but if the Colt was involved, or the knife, the "monster" would be kinda kicked out of the glass?

Yup!

I like to think that Chuck was a prophet and nothing more. Prophets ascend to heaven when their job is complete - done and done.

But yeah, this is just how *I* see things. You don't have to subscribe to the same theories as me - this is just to let people know the SPN-world-view that informs my opinions/theories on the show.

I didn't mind so much when they brought Adam back, but I kind of wish they would get him out of the cage. Adams HORRIFICALLY tragic fate is so undeserved - he really needs to be pulled out of there somehow and tossed back into heaven. I don't necessarily want to see him again, I just wish Death had been like "Yeah, ok, I'll get Sam out...oh, and I'll toss Adam in heaven while I'm there."

But yeah, seeing dead people in Heaven is fine, and if burning a demons bones sends them to purgatory and doesn't kill them completely, than it's fine if we see Crowley again...but I don't want to see any of the Colt/Knife/Angel-Sword/Sam's-Mind victims coming back.

Date: 2011-04-20 10:14 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] marlowe78.livejournal.com
But yeah, this is just how *I* see things. You don't have to subscribe to the same theories as me - this is just to let people know the SPN-world-view that informs my opinions/theories on the show.
Well, I think my comment came out wrong. It's just that I never gave a thought to the universe they live in, and why some people come back and some don't. But reading your idea was very enlightening and even if I'm not sure if I'll adopt that theory, it gives me at least the desire to find one of my own.

I definitely like the thought that "God" is only one of many, just the strongest around right now. I'm a huge Terry Pratchett - fan, and his explanation (I think it's similar to Neil Gaiman?) is that the gods are as strong as the belief their followers have in them. So, some god that's based on some indigenous tribe in South Africa has only limited power in the world, but a lot over those who believe in him, while some god who's worshiped all over the globe has an enormous amount of power, just from the amount of people that follow him. If you will allow the Christian, Jewish and maybe even Muslim God to be one God, then I guess it makes sense that He is right now the greatest force in the universe. BUT - and here I agree - there is too much space out there with non-believing things (like rocks, if you don't believe in aliens) that there HAS to be a limit to his power.

So yeah, I like that analogy.

Oh, Adam... He is a rather tragic figure, and that's one more reason I didn't like him to be resurrected. He was just a puppet for the angels, and he was doomed the minute he crawled out of the grave. He never got to meet Sam and Dean, and he had no choice but to agree to Zacharias ploy. Because really? Who would think angels were such dicks...

I don't know if you remember, but Dean TRIED to get Adam out of there. Not as much as he tried to save Sam, but he asked Death to get him out. Death refused, though, and made Dean choose. Which, if it's ever mentioned again, would've messed Dean up a bit, but I guess since he never knew him, only in the way it'd mess him up if he'd have to leave some other innocent person/soul in there. Maybe God will do something about that? Or is the Cage somewhere outside his power-range?

Huh... Maybe the cage is like an attachment to the hourglass, where God has no dominion? Or not??

Argh, it's so confusing!

Anyway. Yes. Poor Adam.

Date: 2011-04-20 04:56 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hells-half-acre.livejournal.com
Well, I think my comment came out wrong.

Oh, your comment was fine, it was probably just me being defensive. Some of the commenters before you, I think, thought that I was saying that the hourglass was HOW IT IS NO ARGUMENTS, instead of just "how I personally see it, yet to be confirmed or denied by the show."

Yeah, a lot of people who watch SPN seem to subscribe to the Gaiman/Pratchett God-view. Personally, I don't think that's the case though...seeing as how the boys have dealt with pagan gods that are still powerful even though no one believes in them anymore. I think a lot of people get confused (and angry - *cough*Hammer of the Gods*cough*) when they try to turn SPN into a purely Gaiman/Pratchett world, rather than a completely separate world that has just been influenced by Gaiman/Pratchett.

My world-view happily avoids that! :P

And yes, I was happy that Dean thought of Adam in that episode...and it makes sense. Something HAD to be done about Sam. If Dean left Sam soulless (because Sam CHOOSE to jump in the pit) SoullessSam would have caused destruction etc everywhere he went and killed more people. So, Dean either had to kill Soulless!Sam or shove Sam's soul back in there. But yeah, he has to feel pretty damn horrible about Adam - so has Sam, for that matter.

Personally, I think the cage is within God's domain. I see Death and God as equals in SPN, and if Death can go to the cage and pull Sam's soul out easy as pie, than God could do the same. So, in that respect, I think that God is an ass for leaving Adam there.

Date: 2011-04-20 05:44 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] marlowe78.livejournal.com
Oh no, I wouldn't dream of thinking that. After all, you SAID so in your post.

Well, in my eyes, the gods wouldn't ever lose all their power, even if there are no people left who believe in them. There'd be some residue of might in them, and then there is the possibility of them actually encouraging belief.

But I already noticed that even though we see some resemblance with the Gaiman/Pratchett books (I never get where the man has his 'a'...), Supernatural IS something of its own and it'd never really BE something, just be comparable to it.

I personally liked "Hammer of Gods", BECAUSE it was a salute to Gaiman, as well as Crowley was to both authors. I loved that, but it doesn't mean that Kripke took EVERYTHING from that books.

Well, I think no matter what kind of power god has, Death will still be around when he's long gone. First of all, he said so, and then... if Death is gone? That'd be impossible.
I just wonder... who reaps monsters? Are there special reapers out there??

Ah, God... I think God decided to let humanity run free. Let them choose, let them be un-blemished by Fate and Destiny and well, while he's at it, he decided to give his always-complaining-angels a nudge towards free choices. And now that he nudged them (or kicked), he's keeping out of it, making his angels SEE that humanity isn't weak and pathetic, because obviously they never believed that.

And sadly, some things have to die horribly that way. You can't always control everything, that way, it'd be worse than before.

As for leaving him in the Cage... maybe he got him out already? I dunno. Maybe not, but after all, he resurrected Cas with a snip.

Date: 2011-04-20 07:04 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hells-half-acre.livejournal.com
Yeah, I liked Hammer of the Gods too - or at least, I wasn't horribly confused like some people seemed to be about how the gods work on SPN. Like you said, it's a tribute, but not a copy. SPN is its own universe.

I don't know who reaps monsters...that's an interesting thought.

Maybe you are right about God. He's left humanity to their own devices - even if that includes sad-times for Adam.

I sort of pictured that as God=Life, and Death=Death. When Death reaps God, there will be no more life, and therefore no more Death...so I never pictured Death as being immortal in SPN either. Whether or not that makes sense, though, I haven't really thought about.

Date: 2011-04-25 12:51 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] monicawoe.livejournal.com
In order for death to be a threat SOME death has to still be permanent and irreversible.

This, exactly!

This is the precise reason I'm hoping Purgatory is not housing Mary, or Crowley or any of the other characters I've seen people speculate about. That would defeat the entire significance of death (and Death.)

Date: 2011-04-25 12:57 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hells-half-acre.livejournal.com
Indeed!

I'd be willing to put up with Crowley, or Mary...but not any of the Colt/Knife/Angel-killy victims. Though, I wouldn't necessarily be HAPPY about Crowley or May being there...I'd just put up with it.

Date: 2013-12-07 05:01 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] elvit.livejournal.com
Hello!
I found you while checking something for my meta about Supernatural in Russian, and I was just fascinated with your work - timeline and everything. It's just amazing! I'm also deeply interested in Supernatural universe structure (but I'm not sure I've got enough English to translate those thoughts) and your visualisation nature of death is very interesting... Please can I translate it into Russian? Please? Certainly I'd name you as the author and give you the link.

... I'd love to ask you some questions about Winchester locations and timeline, but I guess I should enunciate them first al least for myself... )))

Date: 2013-12-07 05:22 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hells-half-acre.livejournal.com
Hi!

Thank you! I'm glad you like my work.

Yes, you can translate this into Russian, if keep me named as author and give me the link! That would be very cool. Let me know if you have any questions as you do so.

And if you have any questions about locations and the timeline, I'll be happy to try to answer them, once you figure out exactly what they are. ;)

Date: 2013-12-07 07:28 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] elvit.livejournal.com
Thank you!
One of my most favourite characters is Death (that's why your meta immediately caught my attention), I tried to make some pattern of his relationship with god and came to a conclusion that the most mysterios race in SPN are reapers. :) I hope we'll get more information about them. And I'd like to know how the Supernatural-universe was made. Cause I wonder why pagan deities thought themselves older than God. If they are older, then who created the universe? And if not why God used them/took their service? Your meta makes the universe much easier to imagine and now I wonder if God is inside or outside? I agree that he can't operate anything outside - but can he move there? Do other dimensions (like in French Mistake) belong to the hourglass space or not?
... I haven't read comments yet, maybe related topics were discussed there...

Date: 2013-12-07 07:55 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hells-half-acre.livejournal.com
I love the character Death too. I find him fascinating. I'm not sure how I feel about the newest lore on reapers (the "rogue reapers"). They aren't discussed in this meta, because I wrote this meta before they were introduced. But I agree that they are the most mysterious race on SPN.

When the pagan deities said that they were older than God, I think I interpreted that as them saying that they were older than the RELIGIONS of God. As in, they were worshiped before people worshiped only the one God. So, in that way, God has existed since the beginning, but was not necessarily worshiped since the beginning - or at least, not always.

It's an interesting question - whether God can move outside the universe. I'm not sure! Maybe that is where he is currently hiding? I do believe that other dimensions (like the French Mistake) are still inside the hourglass space.

Date: 2013-12-09 11:19 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] elvit.livejournal.com
> I'm not sure how I feel about the newest lore on reapers (the "rogue reapers").

Me either :(

> I think I interpreted that as them saying that they were older than the RELIGIONS of God.

- Oh, it makes sence. I've been told recently somthing similar: God doesn't suffer from peaples' fate decreasing (like pagan deities) and this fact proves that he was the first one.

Date: 2013-12-12 01:17 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] elvit.livejournal.com
Here it is: http://www.spn-fic.ru/newstext.php?nid=7 :)
Thank you, it was a pleasure to work with it.

BTW I've noticed the first mentioning of Jesus in 9 years. )) Vesta called him that hippie from Bethlehem - that's lovely ^_^

Date: 2013-12-12 07:24 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hells-half-acre.livejournal.com
Looks great! I can't read Russian of course, but it looks like you have everything!

I noticed that Jesus reference too! Very amusing. :)

Date: 2013-12-13 10:19 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] elvit.livejournal.com
tnx! )))

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