hells_half_acre: (Crying Dean)
[personal profile] hells_half_acre
I don't actually have much written for this one...not sure why. Let's see if I get rambly anyway.

The boys wear suits for 3/4 of this episode if not more. It's the longest I've ever seen them in suits, I think. 

Ugh, the opening scene...ok, so, full disclosure: I could not watch that again.  I skipped it. Now, that being said, I love it when the show centers episodes around holidays/calender events, because it makes timelining so much easier. I'm REALLY hoping they do it again in S6, otherwise I will be at a complete loss for dating anything.

"Talk about co-dependent"
-Hahaha, oh Dean...I think he's still a bit sore over that psychiatrist commenting on his and Sam's relationship. I've been there buddy. I once wrote a not-so-well reasoned rant about why co-dependency wasn't a bad thing. (Not realizing in my youth, that co-dependency is by definition a bad thing.)

"I'm just going to go through some files. You can go ahead and get going."
"Go ahead - "unleash the Kraken". See you tomorrow morning."
"Where am I going?"
"Dean, it's Valentine's Day! You're favorite holiday. I mean, what do you always call it? "Unattached Drifter Christmas"

-Hahaha, this is sort of bittersweet - because it takes us back to an earlier Dean, and gives us an insight into, perhaps, Sam's teenage years...but it also goes to point out how much things have changed for them. Famine or no, I don't think Dean has much lust for life these days...but I'll get into that in a minute...

"So, you're not into bars full of lonely women?"
"I guess not. ...what?"
"It's when a dog doesn't eat, that's when you know something is wrong."
"Remarkably patronizing concern. Duly noted."

-Now, this early in the episode, this line is played mostly for laughs...but actually, Sam's not wrong. Dean's horribly depressed. I guess I'll talk about this more later when Famine is monologuing, but yeah...it's my opinion that what Dean craves is death (only, without the afterlife...which is why he doesn't start actively offing himself).

"It seems like no matter what we do, something in life is always going to keep us apart - work, family, sleep-"
"Now prison maybe"

-I usually don't quote the victim dialog...but i get such a laugh out of the way the actress delivers that line.

"Hey, *Dean pushes tuperware with heart in it closer to Sam* ... be my Valentine?" *smiles*
-Awww hahahaha....oh god, Dean, why are you so adorable?!

"I'm there now"
"Yeah, I get that"
"I'm going to hang up now"

-One of my favorite Castiel arrivals. This has actually happened to me with my friends/family a few times...and it's similarly awkward. I'm a little like Castiel with phones - crazy awkward. 

"Technically it's a cherub, 3rd class."
-I love classifications and order systems.

Cas: "What I'm saying is that a cupid has gone rogue and we need to stop him before he kills again!"
Sam: "Naturally"
Dean: "Of course we do"

-I absolutely love the look Dean gives Castiel. It's the famous "humour the insane person" look. 

Misha is great at the longing looks towards Dean's burger.

"Is this a fight? Are we in a fight?"
"This is their handshake."
"I don't like it!"
"No one likes it."

-Hahaha...oh Mr. Edlund, you are so awesome.

Of course, the only thing more awkward than a naked man is a crying naked man. This poor guest actor did an amazing job...imagine getting a gig and then finding out you're going to be "naked" on set with three other guys and you have to cry? I can't even...there's a reason I'm not an actor (besides my lack of acting talent).

You know, Sam actually shows remarkable restraint in this episode. It's a shame that Dean's in a place where he focuses on the negative rather than the positive...but I'll talk more about his later. But I will say that even Castiel gives in before Sam does...and yes, you could argue that burgers are harmless and there was no reason for him NOT to give in...but I say that's bull.

I can't watch the introduction of Famine either...SO GROSS!! Seriously...I love Ben Edlund, but he writes some of the more disgusting episodes.

The actor who plays Famine though does such a great and completely creepy job. That was really well cast.

"Wait. Your. Turn!"
-Oh man, I know this is a horrible thing Sam is doing, but DAMN, I love it when he goes all BAMF. Also, just while I'm using internet acronyms, I'd like to say that I'm very jealous of the actress who got to have Jared pretend to suck blood from her neck.

"You sic your dog on me, I just threw him a big steak"
-See, this is what I'm talking about with the fact that even CAS couldn't resist Famine as well as Sam did. He's left Dean wide open for attack and can't pry himself away from a tray of meat to help him. 

"I can see how broken  you are, how defeated. You can't win and you know it, but you just keep fighting, keep going through the motions. You're not hungry, Dean, because inside you're already dead."
-So, this is the line that tripped most of the fandom up...because like usual, they took things far too literally. Famine doesn't actually mean that Dean's DEAD inside...he means that what Dean craves is death...for it to just all be over. What he means is that Dean is severely depressed. Things that used to bring him joy, no longer do...hence why he's not craving his usual pleasures. 

So why isn't he actively killing himself? Because that's not death for Dean, and Dean knows it. He's been to Hell already (at this point, he probably thinks he'll go there again if he offs himself), so that's not an option. Instead he's craving for it to be over manifests itself the way it does in animals - Famine preys to our reptile brains, so why wouldn't it? 

Anyway, yeah, I think anyone who has been depressed (not just sad, but depressed) should recognize that that is what Dean is suffering from, and that's what Death meant. I just remember a lot of people writing about how Famine says Dean is dead inside, and then pointing to the fact that Dean is crying at the end of the episode as evidence that he CAN'T be dead inside because he can still feel. People who are depressed can still cry, people...what they can't do is muster up much of desire to do anything else.

"Sam, I see you got the snack I sent you"
"You sent?"
"Don't worry. You're not like everyone else. You'll never die from drinking too much. You're the exception that proves the rule, just the way Satan wanted you to be."

-Ok, so, this is my theory, because I like to tie up plotholes based on little to no information. The reason for the demon-blood at 6months? So that Sam could drink copious amounts of demon blood without dying...and also so that Sam wouldn't burn away like Nick. It seems to be an added catch to being Lucifer's vessel - the fact that Lucifer burns through the bodies. He had to drink demon blood as Nick too, and Nick was still burning away - presumably, if Nick had been a special-kid, he wouldn't have burnt away as quickly. Anyway, that's my theory, which I think I'll stick too, because it makes everything work out nicely.

Now, one could look at Sam's remarkable restraint in this scene two ways (or both ways). 1) Sam is AWESOME. Even in the presence of Famine, he holds strong and destroys the horseman rather than give in to his craving. 2) Where Famine went wrong was the fact that Sam didn't crave the demon-blood, but rather the power that it gave him. Sam's pleasure was in exorcising that power (hence the orgasm face when exorcising 5 demons at once).

And now the end...I touched on this a little already...

I think the problem is that because of Dean's depression, when he hears Sam's screams from the panic room - all he can hear is a sign of Sam's weakness. What he SHOULD be hearing is a sign of Sam's strength. Sam resisted consuming the blood of the demon in the alley - he ASKED Dean to tie him up as a precaution when he realized he was infected...he resisted IN THE PRESENCE OF FAMINE. He only submitted because demons basically offered themselves on a platter, and even then, he used the mistake to their advantage by using the power it gave him on Famine. THEN, he WILLINGLY went to Bobby's panic room to go through the painful process of detoxing.

Dean doesn't see all that though...he just hears his brother in pain, and calling out for help, because of an addiction...and the world at large sees addictions as weaknesses. He only sees that Sam's relapsed, not that it was basically forced on him. So, yeah, that's not fair to Sam...but that's depression for you. Depressed people tend to see the negative before they see the positive.

ETA: Also, as [livejournal.com profile] mymuseandi  pointed out in the comments - Dean's sense of powerlessness and failure is also affected by the fact that Sam's in the panic room screaming for help, but there's actually nothing Dean can do to help him. It's all rather depressing and heartbreaking for Dean.

Man, the rest of this rewatch is going to be pretty depressing...

Date: 2010-10-11 06:07 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mymuseandi.livejournal.com
You know, Sam actually shows remarkable restraint in this episode. It's a shame that Dean's in a place where he focuses on the negative rather than the positive...

Yes! This I agree.

So, this is the line that tripped most of the fandom up...because like usual, they took things far too literally. Famine doesn't actually mean that Dean's DEAD inside...he means that what Dean craves is death...for it to just all be over.

Really? I must be in one of my 'head in the clouds' moments because I miss this uproar entirely.

For that particular ending, I think it kills Dean that he had to put his brother in there, alone, screaming for help, but I think he's also reached the end of his rope, and didn't know what else to do. Maybe he really does see things in the negative light, that addiction is a weakness, but then, by that particular episode, so did Sam. If they both think that way then there's really no other way it could go, can it?

Date: 2010-10-11 06:20 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hells-half-acre.livejournal.com
Well, maybe it wasn't an uproar...I stay away from 75% of the fandom most of the time, so if I see one or two people confused, I extrapolate from there and assume it's a lot of people.

And yes, Sam being in there alone, screaming for help...and Dean can't actually help him. Well, that's a pretty powerless and frustrating experience. Actually, I should add that to the post proper....

Depressing show is depressing. :P

Date: 2010-10-11 06:26 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hells-half-acre.livejournal.com
Also! Thanks for the Yorkie gift! :)

Date: 2010-10-11 06:11 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] trystan830.livejournal.com
this was my take on Famine's comment to Dean after i watched 5x16:

in 5x14, Famine said Dean was dead inside. we know he's not, based on his plea for help at the end. Dean's the master of "no chick flicks" and keeping feelings bottled up inside until they explode. he's got his feelings buried deep down inside, but they're still there.... somewhere hidden.

yeah, that's what i got. ;)

Date: 2010-10-11 06:24 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hells-half-acre.livejournal.com
Yeah...depressed people still have feelings, they just can't really feel them at the strength they normally would - except, you know, for utter sadness which is what Dean displays at the end.

Poor Dean, he needs lots of hugs.

Date: 2010-10-11 06:30 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] trystan830.livejournal.com
i can give him hugs!!

guess i really don't know what i'm talking about, since i don't have any experience with depressed people...

Date: 2010-10-11 06:39 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hells-half-acre.livejournal.com
I do! Yay!

Actually, back in 2007/2008, I was so depressed that I started exhibiting the signs of suicidal tendencies. Not that I would ever do that, but I had the symptoms they look for when they diagnose stuff like that. Fun times! :P

All better now though :)

Date: 2010-10-11 06:54 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] trystan830.livejournal.com
oh wow.... glad things are all better! =)

Date: 2010-10-11 06:28 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] claudiapriscus.livejournal.com
I loved Cas' phone-entrance because he seemed to just have this air of, IDK, like he was humoring the humans by following their pointless little ritual to the very very end. (And considering the angels' usual method of transportation and communication, it makes sense to me that it'd all seem strangely overly complicated and redundant.)

I still can't make sense of the demon blood thing. At this point in the season, they were still signalling that Sam's... redemption? triumph? would be in overcoming the whole demon blood thing, in both the turning away from his supposed destiny and also overcoming the temptation (for blood, or for power). And the fact that *satan* is the one who wanted him hopped up on demon blood....

that all fits. Up until the end of the season. Which is why the end of the season still doesn't make sense to me. You know how I've said that each new season takes place in a slightly different alternate universe from the last one? It's like that happened again, but at the tail end of the last season.

Date: 2010-10-11 06:35 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hells-half-acre.livejournal.com
Hmm..yeah, I can see your issue. I don't know...I guess I didn't really see it that way. I saw things like this episode, where Sam uses his "weakness" to their advantage...where he takes his "dark destiny" and actually spins it in their favour...and I felt that the final episode was in keeping with that. Sam still "succumbs" but finds his redemption in using his destiny AGAINST evil rather than in support of it.

And YES, to Cas's phone conversation...I couldn't find the words for it, but that's exactly what it is (and also what happens to me when I end up in the same situation), there's this strange ritual humans have for getting off the phone, and actually ending a conversation in the same room as the person you are phoning totally ruins it...yet there's still that weird desire to complete the ritual.

Date: 2010-10-11 06:58 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] claudiapriscus.livejournal.com
I mean, if it's pointless, it's pointless all the way through, so he's going to finish it. Like, "Jeez, you just can't please some people."

The blood thing... I might have seen it that way if the show hadn't completely kept making a big deal out of it being bad. I mean, Famine was all, "give in! yes, drink more demon blood!" and Sam esisted Famine and kicked their asses. And then-? He voluntarily went into rehab.

So there's that...and also the fact that they already went down the path of 'taking advantage of the evil destiny and spinning it to their advantage' in season 4. And they made it very very clear there that, best intention or not, it was an extremely bad idea. That it was doomed from the start. That the only way to win was not to play.

Which is not unique to supernatural, I can think of half a dozen other stories and tv episodes that basically used the same trope (evil daniel in SG-1 comes to mind).

And even this late in the game in season 5, they were still singing that tune. Which is why the last few episodes seemed so very...random and arbitrary to me. They jumped tracks and finished a story they hadn't been telling. At least not for 3 seasons or so.

Date: 2010-10-11 11:30 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hells-half-acre.livejournal.com
Hmm...well, I think we'll just have to disagree on this. I just don't see it as incongruent...so, I'm either missing what you're seeing, or I've just interpreted it all differently.

Still, the show is far from perfect, and I'm hardly going to argue that hard to claim otherwise :P

Date: 2010-10-12 12:05 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] borgmama1of5.livejournal.com
This episode felt like two separate stories mushed together--one was silly with Cupid and gory, and the other was deadly serious with Famine, Dean, and Sam drinking blood.

I thought Sam came off really heroic in this one, because even though he did succumb to drinking the demon blood he didn't use it like Famine wanted him to--Sam kept himself reined in and then voluntarily went to Bobby's.

I wish we could have seen how that happened instead of silly Cupid...

And Dean? Yeah, depression. Which, quite frankly, is not at all surprising.

Date: 2010-10-12 12:11 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hells-half-acre.livejournal.com
A lot of Supernatural episodes are like that...or well, I'm thinking of TMATEOTB specifically - where you get the "haha we're in a book!" storyline with the "You can't fight destiny and Sam's going to sleep with Lilith or something!" storyline.

Personally, I kind of like it...but that's me. I like the fact that the show goes from completely ridiculously hilarious to soberly depressing in the blink of an eye.

From a storytelling point of few - the scenes where Sam willingly goes into the panic room are not plot-contributers...they would have made the episode too angsty and/or maudlin. And it's angsty enough even with the silly Cupid gag.

Date: 2010-10-12 01:17 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] katsheswims.livejournal.com
This episode grosses me out too. When I re-watched it with I friend I looked away at the beginning and at points in the restaurant scene.

Yeah, Dean is definaltely depressed. Since he got back from Hell it's just gotten worse and worse for him.

A couple people theorized that maybe Dean's craving would be for hope-but that's not really something you can ingest or attain in any way, there would be no way Famine could give that to Dean, just deprive him of it.

Date: 2010-10-12 04:22 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hells-half-acre.livejournal.com
It's a nice theory...the hope one. But I think Dean is too depressed for hope to matter at this point. In either case though, like you said - hope isn't something you can attain.

Poor Dean!

Date: 2010-10-12 02:34 pm (UTC)
sinesofinsanity: For use in leading quests and destorying balrongs (Default)
From: [personal profile] sinesofinsanity (from livejournal.com)
Did Sam voluntarily go into rehab? They never show that, but they make a point of having Cas say "That's not really him in there." Suggesting that Cas believes Sam is the strong cleaned up guy we know, but Addicted!Sam is not. I can imagine the scene playing out one of two ways:

1) Dean tells Sam something along the lines of "we need to get you cleaned out" Sam shrugs him off with a gruff "I'm fine." They argue for a bit, Sam's point being "Look what I just did. I resisted demon blood in the face of Famine. I am AWESOME-MAN!" And Dean being "You just sucked two vessels dry and liked it!!" Finally punches are thrown, Dean knocks Sam out and they carry him to the panic room.
2) Dean and Sam stare at each other (as they were when we left them). Suddenly Cas appears beside/in front of/behind Sam, does the fingers-to-forehead "You shall fall asleep now" thing, and then transports them all to Bobby's. Sam wakes up already in the panic room. (I like this version better)

In short, I don't think we can assume that Sam went willingly to the panic room just because we see him there. I think it's far more likely that Sam believes he doesn't need the panic room and will be fine now that Famine is gone.

Just a thought.

Date: 2010-10-12 04:21 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hells-half-acre.livejournal.com
Wow, you don't have a very high opinion of Sam. I disagree.

Addicted!Sam isn't THAT far from Sam's real personality. Also, while he and Dean are staring at each other (as we see), you can totally tell that Sam is like "I'm sorry...they basically offered themselves on a platter..and Famine is here...and please don't think less of me!" Even Addicted!Sam is worried about the trust issues with his brother.

In S5, Sam is more honest with Dean than ever, and also more co-operative...because he's trying to prove to Dean that Dean can trust him. Drinking demon-blood or no, Sam would have gone willingly to the panic room. Just as it was his suggestion that Dean tie him down earlier in the episode when the craving hit.

Also, if Sam had resisted (or been immediately transported by Cas), I think that would be an important plot-point and would have to be shown on screen - as it would even further weaken Dean's faith in him.

Castiel says "that's not really him in there" because I think detox!Sam IS a different Sam...the kind of Sam who is panicking and would say anything to get out of there and get some blood so that the hallucinations will stop. Dean and Cas both know that although Sam is calling for help, if they went in there he'd probably try to overpower them an escape or something.

So, yeah....I think it's more likely Sam went willingly into the panic room.

Date: 2010-10-12 09:19 pm (UTC)
sinesofinsanity: For use in leading quests and destorying balrongs (Default)
From: [personal profile] sinesofinsanity (from livejournal.com)
I'm not sure if it's a low opinion of Sam or not, but Sam seemed to be shocked that he was craving demon blood earlier in this episode. Also throughout the season, he seemed eager not just to prove to Dean that he was off the demon blood, but that he could resist it on his own. Sam asking Dean to tie him up was Sam admitting that Famine had gotten to him, not admitting that he wasn't strong enough. (After all, Famine was causing people to kill themselves)

I guess my interpretation is that Sam thinks he's craving demon blood because of Famine, not because he's addicted again. Sam doesn't actually like sucking down demons. He says so even when addicted, and in the season finale he actually looks grossed out about the fact that he'll have to drink more. So now that Famine is no longer calling the shots, as far as Sam is concerned, that's it, he doesn't need detox. It's similar to how many smokers say "This is my last cigarette". As far as they are concerned, it is. They're not smoking it because they're addicted, they're smoking it because they got in a fender bender, their kid is acting up, or they're just more stressed than usual today. And to be fair, often/sometimes, it is the last cigarette, but a lot of times, they also need external help or intervention.

If you can give me a plausible scenario where Sam would willingly go into the panic room, I might buy it, but timing wise, everything else is faster. (I'm assuming the shot of Dean and Cas outside the panic room is no more than a couple hours after the events in the diner) Also, I think that detox!Sam is more similar to addicted!Sam than addicted!Sam is to regular Sam. Just based on where the hallucinations and feelings of power come from.

Date: 2010-10-12 09:43 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hells-half-acre.livejournal.com
Ok, that's all well and good, but Sam KNOWS the sideeffects of coming off the demon blood. Detoxing in the panic room is less about not-drinking-demon-blood, and more about being in a controlled environment where he can't accidentally injure himself or other people when the hallucinations/desperation hits. And Sam would know this from the last time...so, in my opinion, he'd willingly volunteer to go in.

Also, just timeline wise (because I do that on the side...along with my clothing project with helps answer this question too) there is no way to tell the amount of time that has passed between the restaurant and the scene at Bobby's. All we know is that: A)Dean still has the cut on his temple, but the blood is wiped up and it has clotted and started to scab over, and b)Dean has changed clothes.

Now, that COULD mean that it's only been a couple of hours, and in those couple of hours Dean cleaned up and changed clothes. Or, it could be that it's the next day, and Dean and Sam went back to the motel, got their stuff, loaded everything into the Impala, and drove to Bobby's, and locked Sam in the panic room before he started loosing it. The Impala IS there, so no matter what, Dean had the time to drive to Bobby's place.

Also, we don't know how long Sam can go without a hit. When he went through detox before, it was after a 3 week dry spell and then only a brief mouthful of demon blood. Also, we don't know how it works...does using his powers "use up" the demon blood? So, the fact that he possibly drank two demons dry wouldn't mean that he'd last longer before another hit - but would rather mean that he had enough juice to defeat Famine, but then it was all "used up" and he needed another hit...? I mean, if it works like regular drugs, I guess there's just a certain set time period that it's in his system no matter how much he takes. In which case, how long is that?

He's already screaming in the panic room...the last time he was in detox the screaming held off for long enough for Dean to drive him to Bobby's, trick him into the panic room, and even then, the screaming didn't start until the next day...

Anyway, I'm not saying that your theories are completely outside the realm of possibility. I'm just saying that my belief that Sam went willingly is also just as plausible.

Date: 2010-10-13 02:16 am (UTC)
sinesofinsanity: For use in leading quests and destorying balrongs (Default)
From: [personal profile] sinesofinsanity (from livejournal.com)
Wow, you really did miss your calling as a continuity adviser. I didn't even notice that Dean had changed his clothes... That detracts from my theory a lot.

I suppose the only thing I have left to say is that as far as anyone knows, sitting in the panic room may not have worked as demonblood detox. What cured Sam last time was God, up until Cas let Sam out, as far as anyone knew cold turkey wasn't working (and to be fair cold turkey doesn't always work, some people can has severe enough withdrawal symptoms to actually cause heart attacks). Which brings me back to the point that Sam could be assuming it was all Famine that was making him crave demon blood.

That being said, I honestly believe that Cas and Dean would easily talk Sam around to the fact that maybe detox would be a good thing to at least try. The only way Sam going into the panic room unwillingly would work is if there was almost no time in between (which I had assumed) Either way, I don't think it makes Sam any weaker. He still showed remarkable restraint, it just fits better with my understanding of addiction. (Both unwilling Sam and convinced Sam) (If that made any sense)

Date: 2010-10-13 02:26 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hells-half-acre.livejournal.com
Wow, you really did miss your calling as a continuity adviser.

Haha, yes...now please write to the major studios around here and tell them that. I need a job!

And that makes perfect sense. Not that Cas is an authority on addictions or demon-blood or anything...but he DOES say to Dean in this episode that Sam just needs to get it out of his system...or something along those lines. He implies that cold turkey will work anyway.

But yeah, it was an assumption on my part that Sam went willingly, but he might have needed convincing, or could have been forced. All are possible!

Date: 2010-10-13 06:12 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dellavie.livejournal.com
I'm not fond of the way television shows try to show depression. I'm all to aware that it is a part of life and affects (sadly) too many of us, but if you've ever had it, I think the last thing you want is a reminder of the worst part of your life, and those who haven't can't be properly engrossed in the 'angst' because it's too much of a downer that people don't want to be drawn in. (I submit season six of Buffy as exhibit B.)

This episode marked my detachment from the series because, from the moment Dean first said he didn't want anything I knew where this was going, and wanted nothing more to skip to the end when he was out of that place (even though you're never truly out) enough to get back to the show I fell in love with. Because contrary to what Sera Gamble may think, I don't watch it for the unnecessary chick-flick moments or the boys in pain.

Also, a possible theory on the end with Sam in the panic room - as it has been mentioned, depression usually leads to negative thoughts; perhaps Dean couldn't see Sam's 'strength' on this matter because his thought process may have gone something like this: Sam crying out with withdrawal/withdrawal over demon blood/Ruby got his addicted/this is all her fault/Ruby is such a (********ing, manipulative, demonic, ******,)... bitch/he picked her/why/

Granted, it may not make much sense, but my point is that if you let your thoughts stray long enough, they'll inevitably end up at the place you don't want them to. And with Sam's betrayal, I think that's something Dean's never really going to forget, and something he'd likely end up thinking about at that point given the circumstances.

I won't comment on Sam, because while I do believe he would have had a say in his second detox, I don't care for him much as a character. He's turning into John, and not the good John. The John that everyone seems to like writing about in fanfics.. that John.

*re-reads unusually large comment*

Erm. As you were.

Date: 2010-10-13 06:21 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hells-half-acre.livejournal.com
Wow, you explained what I meant by Dean not being able to see the "strength" much better than I did. That's exactly what my thought process was...the fact that Dean is depressed, so his thoughts are inevitably going to stay into that downward spiral of negativity.

Sorry that you detached yourself from the show here though. Personally...well, it's not like I wasn't uncomfortable and depressed by Dean's depression...actually, I really am not looking forward to rewatching some of these episodes because of it...but despite that, I felt that it really did work for the plot. Not only that, I thought it was realistic (or at least, more realistic than usual). After all, if this were reality, Sam and Dean would have probably been crazy depressed and suicidal way before this. So, yeah, I liked the fact that they went there.

I won't comment on Sam either, because I think you and I are just on two different sides of the fence there.

Date: 2010-10-13 07:26 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dellavie.livejournal.com
I'm not sugesting that depression wasn't the natural course for the characters to go (especially Dean given his trip to hell), I am just not overly joyed to be watching people in misery on tv.

Re Sam: Yesterday someone likened my attitude towards Sam similarly to a lot of peoples' reaction towards Dumbledore after the seventh book. It took me a while to get, at first (I thought she didn't get my point), but when I did I realised she was right (she understood completely, which was scary). And being that I actually like Dumbledore very much so, I'm now finding it hard to dislike Sam. Curse people and their insidious logic!

Date: 2010-10-13 07:29 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hells-half-acre.livejournal.com
Oh ok, I understand. I too have difficulty watching these depression-episodes...I mean, on the one hand, I love the show and it fit the characters...on the other hand, TV is supposed to be my escape, not remind me about how it feels when I'm miserable :P

Re Sam: That makes sense. For me, I still don't dislike Sam. I love him just as much as I always have. I am, however, extremely worried about him.


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