He is a lying liar who lies, after all, and all the people who can prove him wrong are dead or in time-out. ...or Joshua, I suppose? Whatever happened to Joshua?
Good point! And I was wondering about Joshua too - I almost wrote it in the review, but for some reason didn't.
I think that Sam doesn't necessarily know he's absolutely 100% positively going to die at this point? He just knows how likely it is and he's accepted/made his peace with it. But, yeah, definitely not letting Dean know any of that.
Agreed. I think this makes sense, in terms of Sam not really knowing, but knowing it's a possibility and accepting that.
it's like they recognize it and try to actually explain what's going on to each other/be honest all around. Even if it doesn't last, it's nice.
Agreed. I wonder if they'll ever learn to communicate well? Probably not. I know I never have. :P I think one of the great struggles of humans in general is trying and failing to communicate with each other.
It is kind of funny that Crowley keeps failing to kill the Winchesters, when he seems to be the only major villain who doesn't underestimate them, as he himself pointed out late in s6.
Agreed again! Which is why I wonder if sometimes it is his choice to let them live... I mean, the other people is that they keep coming back from the dead - so maybe Crowley's way of dealing with them is just to get them out of the way OR working for him in some capacity.
I kind of wish she'd survived, despite all the horrible things she's done. Because (at least IMO, and my roommate agrees with me) she's kind of the closest the show's come to a sympathetic arc villain, and here she recognizes she screwed up and is trying to fix it...
Very true. It'd be interesting to have a "grey" villain on the show... and she WAS on the road to a redemptive arc when she died.
But even looking back on s1-5...By now, you have to figure their least favorite month is May.
lol! Agreed. Sam's birthday usually kicks off the horribleness too. No wonder we never see them celebrating. ;)
...I have to wonder about that second deleted scene. Was Sam planning to shoot Crowley after he was cured? Was that always the plan? It puts the Abaddon-surgery in a slightly different context, and is kind of...um...ouch? What kind of comment does that make about redemption, especially given how Sam found it for everything with Lucifer--not only do you have to repent/be cleansed, but you have to die for it to stick? If that's true, it puts his willingness to die in yet another context...
Very interesting point. Especially because when I read this comment, I had a different thought than you at first before I finished.
Because, yes, I got the impression that Sam was going to shoot Crowley when he was cured. And then I realized that THAT'S why it didn't matter to the boys that Abaddon wouldn't survive the frankenstein-surgery.
But then we parted ways in our train of thought, because my immediate thought was "The Winchesters plan to DENY the demons a shot at redemption, by killing them immediately", but then you're thought was that death is PART and NECESSARY for the redemption to take place... and both thoughts are extremely interesting to contemplate.
If the Winchesters do believe that you have to sacrifice your life for redemption, then yes, Sam being willing to die (yet again) for the benefit of the world, does suggest that Sam might feel that he still NEEDS to die, that he hasn't been redeemed for his very existence yet - even though, I'm pretty sure that in S7, he had decided that yes, he had been redeemed and had paid for his mistakes.
On the other hand, if killing the demon denies them any shot at redemption (my first thought), that's a whole other level of hatred from the Winchesters... basically, instant death-penalty rather than allowing the criminals to "serve time." With no care as to where the purified soul would go in the after-life.
And it's sort of doubly "ouch" because Dean himself was once on the path to becoming a demon.
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timeasmymeasure
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Date: 2014-03-10 07:49 pm (UTC)Good point! And I was wondering about Joshua too - I almost wrote it in the review, but for some reason didn't.
I think that Sam doesn't necessarily know he's absolutely 100% positively going to die at this point? He just knows how likely it is and he's accepted/made his peace with it. But, yeah, definitely not letting Dean know any of that.
Agreed. I think this makes sense, in terms of Sam not really knowing, but knowing it's a possibility and accepting that.
it's like they recognize it and try to actually explain what's going on to each other/be honest all around. Even if it doesn't last, it's nice.
Agreed. I wonder if they'll ever learn to communicate well? Probably not. I know I never have. :P I think one of the great struggles of humans in general is trying and failing to communicate with each other.
It is kind of funny that Crowley keeps failing to kill the Winchesters, when he seems to be the only major villain who doesn't underestimate them, as he himself pointed out late in s6.
Agreed again! Which is why I wonder if sometimes it is his choice to let them live... I mean, the other people is that they keep coming back from the dead - so maybe Crowley's way of dealing with them is just to get them out of the way OR working for him in some capacity.
I kind of wish she'd survived, despite all the horrible things she's done. Because (at least IMO, and my roommate agrees with me) she's kind of the closest the show's come to a sympathetic arc villain, and here she recognizes she screwed up and is trying to fix it...
Very true. It'd be interesting to have a "grey" villain on the show... and she WAS on the road to a redemptive arc when she died.
But even looking back on s1-5...By now, you have to figure their least favorite month is May.
lol! Agreed. Sam's birthday usually kicks off the horribleness too. No wonder we never see them celebrating. ;)
...I have to wonder about that second deleted scene. Was Sam planning to shoot Crowley after he was cured? Was that always the plan? It puts the Abaddon-surgery in a slightly different context, and is kind of...um...ouch? What kind of comment does that make about redemption, especially given how Sam found it for everything with Lucifer--not only do you have to repent/be cleansed, but you have to die for it to stick? If that's true, it puts his willingness to die in yet another context...
Very interesting point. Especially because when I read this comment, I had a different thought than you at first before I finished.
Because, yes, I got the impression that Sam was going to shoot Crowley when he was cured. And then I realized that THAT'S why it didn't matter to the boys that Abaddon wouldn't survive the frankenstein-surgery.
But then we parted ways in our train of thought, because my immediate thought was "The Winchesters plan to DENY the demons a shot at redemption, by killing them immediately", but then you're thought was that death is PART and NECESSARY for the redemption to take place... and both thoughts are extremely interesting to contemplate.
If the Winchesters do believe that you have to sacrifice your life for redemption, then yes, Sam being willing to die (yet again) for the benefit of the world, does suggest that Sam might feel that he still NEEDS to die, that he hasn't been redeemed for his very existence yet - even though, I'm pretty sure that in S7, he had decided that yes, he had been redeemed and had paid for his mistakes.
On the other hand, if killing the demon denies them any shot at redemption (my first thought), that's a whole other level of hatred from the Winchesters... basically, instant death-penalty rather than allowing the criminals to "serve time." With no care as to where the purified soul would go in the after-life.
And it's sort of doubly "ouch" because Dean himself was once on the path to becoming a demon.