When Sam got up to question her, I totally thought the first thing he said was "So, you're dead..." and I'm like, "geez, Sam, way to be sensitive." But then I realized he had said "So, your dad..." Hahaha and I like the fact that Jo gave him a smile.
Oh really???? I thought he stated her state of ... life. *blush* Dammit, English language!.
Funny... it makes more sense now ;-)
I thought it was interesting how Osiris basically hands them the key to escaping the trial, by telling them that it doesn't matter what Osiris things, it only matters what Dean thinks.
Yeah, I liked that too. Osiris isn't judging - he's only doing what people's hearts tell them is just. Even though other people might disagree, and that's why any good justice-system doesn't base its punishments on what the sinners think they deserve. It ISN'T just.
And we all know that Dean is as good as dead when it comes to his own heart.
Sam calls Dean to the stand and manages to convince him that his heart isn't heavy with guilt, it's just heavy...and it's not his fault that life blows
Well, for me, Dean didn't look convinced. He looked guilty as hell, and of course he would. People feel guilty for less things, and there isn't really much you can do in a short "trial"-thingy to make them stop feeling like that. After all, it took Sam 100 years in Lucifer's Cage to stop feeling guilty. So no, Dean wasn't convinced, in my opinion. He only didn't really wanna die.
I don't really understand why Osiris sends Jo after Dean though, I mean, it would make more sense to send Amy...but whatever.
Huh. I wondered myself. But I think... it could be because he doesn't REALLY feel guilty for Amy, but for going after her behind Sam's back? If he didn't think it was necessary, he'd not have gone and killed her. So his guilt isn't for killing Amy, but for not trusting Sam's judgment, for lying to Sam and for making the poor Kid see his mother die. But he DOES feel guilty about Jo dying. He feels more guilty for things that happen because he was in some way "selfish" - I might think that this definition of selfishness is based on his non-childhood *kicks John against shin* - then for the deaths he caused by his own hands. Like... he feels guilty for dragging Sam away because HE didn't want to be alone. And for getting Lisa in trouble because HE wanted to not be alone. And for having Jo die because HE didn't feel up to facing Lucifer alone.
I'm seeing a pattern ;-)
I don't really understand why they had the Rabbi discover Sam stealing though...I mean, they didn't even really use it that much. He had the one line about Sam not being there for Barmitzvah lessons, but...it just seems odd, it all.
Maybe there is a missing scene for that? Or to "heighten the tension" - like: does Sam come back on time? Or doesn't he??
*eyeroll* If the writers think we would actually think he WOULDN'T come back on time, they have lost touch with reality ;-) So I'm going with missing scene here. Maybe a funny one.
About Sam and not-guilt: I'm glad he doesn't feel guilty anymore, though I think it would have taken less time for him to reach that phase than 1,5 to 180 Years. But that's the time he was down there... I think he'd be "perfectly unguilty" if he'd have only been there for um, 4 months (40 years) Soooo, why isn't that enough for Dean? Well, my guess: because in Hell, he heaped up even MORE sins and guilt. He didn't stay strong, he broke, and he LIKED torturing souls (I fully believe that he did, in that twisted, torture-based way. He didn't have a choice but to like it, so yeah... he liked it. And it still killed him all over)
So yeah, I tentatively hope it's gonna be a "help Dean"-Season. Sam is fin(er) and he's got capacity to do so. He's already noticing the drinking-problems. So that leaves me hoping. And YES: season 7 ROCKS!!!
Oh, we also learn this episode that the boys are not catholic. I am not surprised.
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timeasmymeasure
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Date: 2011-10-15 12:18 pm (UTC)Oh really???? I thought he stated her state of ... life. *blush* Dammit, English language!.
Funny... it makes more sense now ;-)
I thought it was interesting how Osiris basically hands them the key to escaping the trial, by telling them that it doesn't matter what Osiris things, it only matters what Dean thinks.
Yeah, I liked that too. Osiris isn't judging - he's only doing what people's hearts tell them is just. Even though other people might disagree, and that's why any good justice-system doesn't base its punishments on what the sinners think they deserve. It ISN'T just.
And we all know that Dean is as good as dead when it comes to his own heart.
Sam calls Dean to the stand and manages to convince him that his heart isn't heavy with guilt, it's just heavy...and it's not his fault that life blows
Well, for me, Dean didn't look convinced. He looked guilty as hell, and of course he would. People feel guilty for less things, and there isn't really much you can do in a short "trial"-thingy to make them stop feeling like that.
After all, it took Sam 100 years in Lucifer's Cage to stop feeling guilty.
So no, Dean wasn't convinced, in my opinion. He only didn't really wanna die.
I don't really understand why Osiris sends Jo after Dean though, I mean, it would make more sense to send Amy...but whatever.
Huh. I wondered myself. But I think... it could be because he doesn't REALLY feel guilty for Amy, but for going after her behind Sam's back?
If he didn't think it was necessary, he'd not have gone and killed her. So his guilt isn't for killing Amy, but for not trusting Sam's judgment, for lying to Sam and for making the poor Kid see his mother die.
But he DOES feel guilty about Jo dying.
He feels more guilty for things that happen because he was in some way "selfish" - I might think that this definition of selfishness is based on his non-childhood *kicks John against shin* - then for the deaths he caused by his own hands.
Like... he feels guilty for dragging Sam away because HE didn't want to be alone. And for getting Lisa in trouble because HE wanted to not be alone. And for having Jo die because HE didn't feel up to facing Lucifer alone.
I'm seeing a pattern ;-)
I don't really understand why they had the Rabbi discover Sam stealing though...I mean, they didn't even really use it that much. He had the one line about Sam not being there for Barmitzvah lessons, but...it just seems odd, it all.
Maybe there is a missing scene for that? Or to "heighten the tension" - like: does Sam come back on time? Or doesn't he??
*eyeroll* If the writers think we would actually think he WOULDN'T come back on time, they have lost touch with reality ;-) So I'm going with missing scene here. Maybe a funny one.
About Sam and not-guilt: I'm glad he doesn't feel guilty anymore, though I think it would have taken less time for him to reach that phase than 1,5 to 180 Years. But that's the time he was down there... I think he'd be "perfectly unguilty" if he'd have only been there for um, 4 months (40 years)
Soooo, why isn't that enough for Dean?
Well, my guess: because in Hell, he heaped up even MORE sins and guilt. He didn't stay strong, he broke, and he LIKED torturing souls (I fully believe that he did, in that twisted, torture-based way. He didn't have a choice but to like it, so yeah... he liked it. And it still killed him all over)
So yeah, I tentatively hope it's gonna be a "help Dean"-Season. Sam is fin(er) and he's got capacity to do so. He's already noticing the drinking-problems. So that leaves me hoping. And YES: season 7 ROCKS!!!
Oh, we also learn this episode that the boys are not catholic. I am not surprised.
We did? Where did I miss something?