My Own Special Hell (AKA: Opinions on Timeline Needed)

[hells_half_acre]

[Poll #1733787]Any suggestions would be appreciated!

Comments

[borgmama1of5.livejournal.com]

I would have voted for Dean's year with Lisa taking place in a time pocket except you gave option #3...but I think TPTB are really hand-waving the missing year and hoping we all forget about it...good luck with that option, guys.

(As soon as Sam said he was from 2011 my very first thought was that this was going to f*** up your beautiful hard work--seriously, that is what I thought. I live by your timeline when writing my fic!)

[fannishliss.livejournal.com]

dear hells half acre, you totally rock. i sympathize with your quandary, but you already know the answer:

CONTINUITY ERROR OCCURRED.

It's not your problem.

The year Dean spent at Lisa's was technically 2010-2011, we all know this..... why don't you call it 2010*, where asterisk = continuity error. :P

That way, if you have to insert things like Sam's bout with the arachnid into the timeline you can just call it 2010*, or 2010A (for alt) .... they mucked it up.

You are to be commended for your strivings!! :)

Hope this helps. Uhura will knife Alt2010 if it gives you any more trouble.

[jillsjourney.livejournal.com]

i think the 6.17/6.18 thing is going to matter, because in frontierland, we find out cas is doing something hinky regarding souls, right? so now we are all expecting something to be revealed. but what he was doing was un-sinking the titanic, which was supposed to come NEXT, but since they reversed the episodes, we are expecting something ELSE. I'm unspoilered, and want to stay that way, so there may be a second thing, but if there isn't, that isn't going to make a lot of sense.

as far as the missing year, i would just chalk it up to Bellisario's Maxim (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Ptitleuvmtqrxe): Don't examine this too closely.

[hells-half-acre.livejournal.com]

I have a feeling my S6 timeline is going to open with a HUGE disclaimer no matter what I do :P

But yeah, after putting up the poll and seeing the first few answers come in, I have a feeling I'll have to put up both years (from now until the end of the series).

Also, awww, thanks for thinking of me and my timeline during the episode :) I assure you, no matter what I do, my timeline will continue to be as accurate as humanly possible, so that you can continue to use it for your fic! :)

[hells-half-acre.livejournal.com]

why don't you call it 2010*, where asterisk = continuity error. :P
That way, if you have to insert things like Sam's bout with the arachnid into the timeline you can just call it 2010*, or 2010A (for alt) .... they mucked it up.

Hmmm, that's an idea...I'll think on that one. Because yes, I DO have to record Sam's bout with the arachnid and such...and it could be a way to get around writing double years for the rest of the timeline...instead I could just write everything that happened in the year that wasn't as "2010*" or "2010A".

And it DOES make me feel better to know that Uhura has my back. :)

[hells-half-acre.livejournal.com]

Hmm, good point about Castiel's storyline. I'll hold off on making a final decision about 6x17/6x18 until the season is over, just in case.

Yes, Bellisario's Maxim is what keeps me from getting TRULY angry at the writers or operating under the insane belief that they're doing it on purpose. The commenter before you suggested that I just not the missing year as 2010* or 2010A...but we'll see.

Thanks for weighing in!

[yourkidney.livejournal.com]

I'm a big fan of the Doctor Who crossover idea myself ;)

[hells-half-acre.livejournal.com]

I may just write it for a laugh anyway. I have to watch more of Eleven first though, I've only seen his first 2 episodes and haven't got a handle on his character yet.

[percysowner.livejournal.com]

I went with both the pocket universe, or just going with both and letting the readers decide. I immediately thought of you when Sam said he was from 2011, partly because I have referred people to your time line for other reasons and I felt bad that now all your hard work was messed up.

Just for curiosity's sake, how would Frontierland and My Heart Will Go On work continuity wise if the newspaper date "the week ending Friday the 29th, 2011." was a newspaper typo and it was a Friday the 29th in 2012? would they then fall into chronological order?

I am slightly ticked at the writers for forgetting the WHOLE PREMISE of the beginning of the season that one year had passed. Part of me is hoping that this isn't what seems to be obvious incompetence, but in the end is a machination of 1) Castiel, 2)Balthazar 3) Crowley 4) Mother or 5) anything else that used that "so called year" as part of a plan to keep Dean and Sam believing they were separated when they weren't really. But I really think the writers just got sloppy. The sad thing is if they had just gone with six months later instead of one year, there is a chance (except for the switched episodes) that the time line would have worked because Sam would have met up Dean just about in mid to late 2011 and we would all be on track, or at least handwaving would be easier. Oh well, they forgot that some fans really do pay attention to all the details.

[missyjack.livejournal.com]

we've been having this discussion on the Wiki. My reasoning is that if Sam went into the Cage in may 2010, the S6 starts May 2011. If Sam get's hi soul back 6 months later, it could still be late 2011.

personally i've never thought the ephemera in episodes was a good guide to canon timliness as too often things relate to when the episode was shot. Plus it all makes my brain hurt!

One of the Wiki editors has added some commentary here on the matter
http://www.supernaturalwiki.com/index.php?title=Canon_Discrepancies

[hells-half-acre.livejournal.com]

I like how so many of my readers thought of me during that line - and it wasn't even until someone told me about it after the episode (and before I wrote my review) that *I* realized what he had said in that line. :P I definitely was not watching the episode with my timelining brain turned on.

The only Friday the 29th in 2012 is in June. So, sadly, it still wouldn't work with Frontierland.

You wouldn't think it'd be THAT hard to keep track of a year - but I guess since they're just in the habit of not thinking of time-details (they really never have thought about time at all, trust me, I know) they just continued to not think about time details.

The last date I have for S5 is in March, and technically episodes after that date COULD be "6 months that felt like a year" as claudiapriscus suggested in another post of mine. But that doesn't work with the Sam+Arachnid storyline...so, yeah...sigh.

I'll figure something out...somehow... :P

[kuhekabir.livejournal.com]

Who care? Sure they could pay better attention but honestly i dont care. It would be the same and second guessing everything friends of mine say, trying to read things into things when nothing is there. Everything is complicated enough that i find no need to hang myself up on little stuff. I agree though that sarah this season isnt doing such a great job. More attention ti details would be good but i wont be loosing any sleep over it. Well spotted though.

[hells-half-acre.livejournal.com]

Yes, my last dated episode before Sam gets his soul back is late-October (2011)...and that's actually a few episodes before Sam gets his soul back. So it's definitely late 2011 that Sam SHOULD be resouled.

My usual rule is that I can ignore props (which are often way off base) but that I can't ignore dialogue...this is the first time that dialogue has COMPLETELY screwed me over.

Nice commentary in the Canon Discrepancies article. I may just link to that when I eventually post the S6 timeline :P

[sandymg.livejournal.com]

Your timeline is the best and a great resource. Thanks! I read about it maybe being late 2011. Doesn't seem to be reflected in the weather though -- would think it would be quite cold by Bobby. Whatever. I like the idea of just going with what characters say. Your pocket of time for the year works for me :)

[monicawoe.livejournal.com]

First of all, I'd really like to add you as a friend-your work is amazing!

Second- the answer to all this is very simple. The brothers have messed up fate and destiny and now time itself. They've traveled to so many pasts that they have caused a paradox. This mixed with angel mojo (which reacts oddly when in such close proximity to Sam's demon blood) has caused time to fold in on itself. By the end of season 6 the Winchesters and all of reality will have reverted back to 2005.

[hells-half-acre.livejournal.com]

Don't get me wrong, I LIKE what Sera has been doing this year otherwise. It's just the forgetting of the timeline that's annoying me a little...but honestly, I realize this is me obsessing over a detail that DOESN'T REALLY MATTER.

Still, despite my complaining about it. It's a very fun project for me to try to keep this timeline.

[hells-half-acre.livejournal.com]

Thanks! And yeah, being late 2011 doesn't really work with the rest of the episodes either.

So far, it's "pocket of time" vs "write out both years and let readers decide."

[hells-half-acre.livejournal.com]

LOL

I love it. I might just use that exact quote as an option when I post the S6 timeline at the end of May. :P

And feel free to add me as a friend too! Lots of people do without asking :)

[monicawoe.livejournal.com]

Feel free to quote me!
I have plenty of other crack theories to help explain things. I wrote out a whole huge fic during this most recent hiatus and in it worked out how I think Hell, Heaven and Purgatory all function (and how souls play into it). Of course I'm totally wrong I'm sure, but it was fun to try to make all the pieces fit ; )

[hells-half-acre.livejournal.com]

I wrote a meta about Heaven/Hell/Purgatory the other week (or how I see it anyway) again, probably wrong, but fun to explain. ;)

I've quoted you in the version I have on my computer anyway!

[claudiapriscus.livejournal.com]

Doctor Who crossover minific awesomeness aside, I think you just just stick to your usual, and just do them as 2011. You can say at the beginning that Dean goes to Lisa at X date, 2010, and that Sam shows up after Dean has been at Lisa's for a year, at X Date, 2010. And then make a point of saying, yes, that's what the show said.

It'll be easier to read, and then the readers will be aware that they should be thinking "2010/2011 +1"

[hells-half-acre.livejournal.com]

Hmm, another good point. I just went through this morning and put both dates in, and it DOES make it a lot more confusing to look at...

And I could use the other suggestion and everything that happened during the "year that wasn't" could take place in "2010*" or "2010A"...

[shidechule.livejournal.com]

now that i answered the poll, ill say: stop obsessing over details.

there WAS a continuity error, and you shouldnt worry about it.
you are going to go crazy if you stop and look at every mistake the writers make.
im saying this from the bottom of my heart. your timeline is amazing as it is. if you obsess on every detail and mistake, you'll officially go crazy and THAT will be a shame.

still, i gotta commend you on your observation skills. the whole error went waaay over my head.

[hells-half-acre.livejournal.com]

Thanks! And don't worry, I'm not going as crazy over this as I might appear to be. I'm mostly just concerned about how I should present the information - when does a continuity mistake become canon? etc...

I just don't want to do my whole timeline "correctly" and then have a bunch of people be like "No! Boo! Hiss! He said he was from 2011 there! YOU ARE ALL WRONG!"

So, yeah, it's mostly a debate about how to notate it so that everyone is pleased.

[claudiapriscus.livejournal.com]

I like that idea. That'd work really, really well.

[galwithglasses.livejournal.com]

The asterisk idea above makes a lot of sense. Asterisks are used in baseball record lists to indicate that a set record was impacted by unusual circumstances explained in some footnote somewhere. Sam and Dean run into unusual circumstances more often than the usual ones. (I'm sure this will limit their chances to be voted into the Hall of Fame. ;-) The whole Dr. Who idea is cool. I think Dean would love the Tardis.). I like your timeline. I hope you keep it up no matter how you resolve it.

[hells-half-acre.livejournal.com]

Thanks for commenting! I must admit the asterisk idea is really growing on me - especially since it will prevent me from having to write double dates from now until the end of time. And people who want to be true to chronological time can just add a year, and people who want to be true to what we see/hear on the show can use the continuity-mistake dates.

We'll see anyway, maybe I'll do another little mock-up and put it to a vote again...

I'll definitely keep up the timeline no matter how I resolve it. It's just so useful for fics. And a lot of the information in the timeline isn't even affected by this problem - such as how many days are spent in each episode, and how much traveling is done.

[msninacat.livejournal.com]

I like the asterisk idea. Take a page from the Baseball Hall of Fame. All records after they switched the numbers of games per season have one to indicate that the record was obtained in a longer season.

[kuhekabir.livejournal.com]

It might be a detail but excellent writing would've made sure there wouldn't be a detail to obsess, right? I used to get all worked up over these which is why I am always closing my eyes now like shutters...LOL...

[ikira.livejournal.com]

Personally I'd recommend going with what the writers and diologue say. Perhaps you could put both options here for now, but if they go into a 7th season, the headaches will just get worse.

Ahhh, timelines and continuity.

[harsens-rob.livejournal.com]

You should see the twisted pretzel puzzle that is the Star Trek timeline. Especially interesting is when they attempt to incorporate all of the various licensed stories through books, comic books, etc. etc.

I both admire and fear the obsessive attention to detail.

But, let's speak now of your problem:

A) I say for right now you go with option C. There is still a chance that the fans clamoring will have the writing staff slip in an explanation somewhere along the line to get us to shut up about it.

B) Any would work for me. My personal choice would probably just to follow 'b' and say that the 150 years blurb was a generalization and not an exact figure.

C)Keep up the good work. Become a BTVS/AtS fan and create timeline there too. Now create 3rd combo-timeline. Stop pretending you have any other life but servicing our timeline needs.

:-O

[hells-half-acre.livejournal.com]

*shrug* I forgive stuff like this, because they've got such little time to churn out these episodes. But that's me, I'm the forgiving sort.

[hells-half-acre.livejournal.com]

Indeed. There's an asterisk option that's been floated by another commenter - and it's looking pretty appealing.

Re: Ahhh, timelines and continuity.

[hells-half-acre.livejournal.com]

Haha, you'd have to pay me for that one.

It seems a mix between option B and C...hard to decide. The thing is that the months are the same, so I could just say "for those who want to be time-logical ADD one year"...and then those who want to follow the writers can just follow the timeline.

Decisions decisions...if they were easy, my life would be very different.

[hells-half-acre.livejournal.com]

Yeah, the asterisk idea is really growing on me too. I don't follow baseball, but apparently they have some good ideas ;)

[cordelia-gray.livejournal.com]

1) GRRR. It does really interfere with my suspension of disbelief when they can't keep their own timeline straight.

2)Sam's line about "2011" could be Sam's mistake, not the show's. He lost a year and half - maybe he keeps getting the year wrong?

3) You should DEFINITELY write the Doctor Who crossover!

[hells-half-acre.livejournal.com]

1)Yes, it is annoying. I agree.

2)It's true, this will be how I'll rationalize it in my head, because if I write any serious fic (wherein the year matters...such as the case with my Harry Potter crossovers) then I'll be using the correct dates.

3)Haha, I probably will. I have to do some more "research" first. It's been a while since I've watched Ten, and someone suggested it'd be better with Eleven anyway...but I've only seen 2 of his episodes so I don't have a feel for his personality yet.

[msninacat.livejournal.com]

I just thought if you knew it was "officially" being used and accepted somewhere, it'd be less hard for you to choose an alternative option. XD I know how us nerds think. lol

[hells-half-acre.livejournal.com]

Hahaha, that you do! ;)

[boyonherbicycle.livejournal.com]

So uh, don't hold me to this, but I remember reading somewhere that they switched the order of the episodes. Frontierland was supposed to air before My Heart Will Go On, as kind of a big reveal for the viewers to see what Castiel's been doing in Heaven.

[hells-half-acre.livejournal.com]

You're correct. The problem is that I like to set the chronology to how the episodes air, not necessarily the order they were filmed in. So, yeah, hence the conundrum.

I think I'm just going to put both options in the timeline and have other people decide what they prefer.

[micaiah67.livejournal.com]

One of the things talked about at the beginning of the season was what the shattered title card meant and there was also mention of things not being what they seemed. So, I'm really hoping that all of these date things are deliberate (because there just seems to be more obvious date placements than usual) and once the season is over it will all be explained....although that may make your job even more difficult. Of course, if somebody dreamed this whole year...I'm gonna be pissed. :) If I were you, I'd wait until the end of the season to make a decision.

[hells-half-acre.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I'll be waiting until the end of the season to make a final decision, but I honestly don't think it's a deliberate mistake. Despite what it might seem, there has actually been LESS mention of dates this year than in the past, so I think the writers/props department are legitimately confused.

Still, you never know. If Dean wakes up from a Djinn coma in the season finale, my timeline fears will be over...of course, I'd rather be slightly annoyed at the timeline than as pissed off as I'd be if it was "all a dream."

[marlowe78.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure I really get all the timeline. Maybe I'm wrong, so if I am, please correct me.

The biggest problem with 2010/2011/2012 is the dialogue Sam had with his namesake in 1861?

Ah, no, I see. It's also the written thingy that says it's 150 years later.... Huh

The Sam-dialogue could be explained by Sam simply not KNOWING it was 2012, right? I mean, he's woken up at Bobby's panic room, recalling only jumping into the ground in Kansas, which happened in 2011. For him, those 12 months with Gramps never really happened, he doesn't remember them. Maybe Dean could one day tell him "Uh, dude, it's actually 2012!" ?

Samuel Colt wouldn't know that. It's possible! But yeah, kinda improbable, when you think about the amount of newspapers the boys read....

Maybe that's a reason they changed the epsiodes around? So the Titanic could be at fault for Sam suddenly in "Frontierland" being REALLY from 2011? Because for some reason, one whole year didn't occur in "My heart will go on", and we will all get an explanation in the next episodes? That could... well, it would be fun, wouldn't it?

So I'd wait to fix your timelines yet, until we get to the end of the season. Maybe there IS some explanation apart from sloppiness.

I'm not holding my breath, though.

And on a side-note: I love how you obsess over this :-D It's fun to see that I'm not the only one completely crazy with this show. (and: I've paid extra-attention to Dean's boots, because well... kink of mine, boots (strudy ones, not the kinky-kinky-kind) They are THE SAME since season 3!)

[hells-half-acre.livejournal.com]

There's also the latest episode, which has a dude born December 16, 1985, and another document stating that he's 25 years old...which would put them in 2011. Also the calendar set to 2010 earlier this seasons...but, yeah, the only dialogue mistake so far has been Sam's 2011. Still, even with Sammy being messed up the past year, this a mistake on the part of the writers, not him, so I may as well prepare for it to happen from here on out in the show...

Yay for boots! Someone (you?) wanted me to add boots/shoes to my clothing catalogue, but I'm kind of burned out from doing the clothes. Still, it's a project that I'm keeping in mind for the future. I'm sure you know that Dean used to wear sneakers once upon a time...he probably ditched them for the same reason Sam ditched the pumas - not much fun when you have to work in the rain for 6 months out of every year.