Thoughts on S5 DVDs and recent S6 spoilers

[hells_half_acre]

S5 DVD - I really hope there's Kripke-commentary to the final episode (I'm sure there will be), and in it, I hope Kripke tells us how it would have ended if there'd been no S6. The production person said on twitter that there WERE rewrites once S6 was announced, but she can't tell us what they were. I'd love to know.

Because it occurred to me yesterday that Kripke's arc was indeed a tragedy. I remember reading a meta in the past year that pointed out that Supernatural was following the basic rules of a classic tragedy - and at the time, I thought "Nooooo" because although my favorite play is Hamlet, I don't actually like the fact that everybody dies in tragedies. I like it when people dog-sled off into the sunset to find the Hand of Franklin.

That being said, I don't mind that Kripke's arc was a tragedy, and that really illustrates how awesome Supernatural is, because here are some facts about me:

1)I don't like one hour dramas.
2)I don't like horror
3)I don't like it when my favorite characters die (and they mostly always do, because I tend to fall for the expendable crew member.)

Yet: My favorite show is Supernatural.

Anyway...I got off track there...let's talk about S6 spoilers:

1)There will be a time-jump
-You know, a lot of people are freaking out about this and I don't know why. I think it'd be way worse if Sam were to just show up after only a week or 2 months or 4 months - it would totally diminish the sacrifice he made, and it would also diminish the loyalty Dean is showing to him by trying with Lisa even though he wants to die or get Sam back. 

2)Jensen will direct an episode.
YAY! That's awesome. I can't wait. Also, if Jensen is directing, I'm assuming that it'll mostly be a Sam episode - because dude, Jensen is overworked as it is! So, that'll be neat.

Alright, well there isn't much point to this post, I'm just bored. So I'll go now.

Comments

[mattheal.livejournal.com]

\o/ You bring me spoilers!!! You are offically my most favoritest person EVER!!!!!!

p.s. Totally agree about the time-jump.

[claudiapriscus.livejournal.com]

My concern about a time jump is if it is a time jump forward into happy, settled, domesticity. And that's not because I have anything against happy and settled domesticity. It's just that they successfully convinced me that Dean has Issues (tm), so if they skip into that without addressing it, it breaks the suspension of disbelief for me.

I'm kind of curious what the original plan was, too. I wonder if it was supposed to be both Dean and Sam falling into the hole. In someways I think that would have fit a little better (and not because I'm in love with parallels. I wish the show could let go of its need to parallel everything.)

It's just that it would have been more of a payoff for some of the things they've been hinting at and tease at for what seems like forever. And I've realized- thanks to this season- that I am a payoff junkie. I love it when all the little things come together in one great orgy of thematic continuity.

That's why I was enjoying fringe so much, despite having not really watched it previously. I was watching the series of episodes where all the foreshadowing and hints and themes and tropes were finally amounting to something, and something big at that. And then I was thinking about how the same thing applied to the first season of Reaper, and to several of my favorite book series, and so on and so forth.

And I'm feeling a bit disappointed now because I didn't get my fix.

[hells-half-acre.livejournal.com]

Yay for being your favorite person! I'm glad I could bring you these delicious spoilers! I tend to avoid spoilers all year, but then go crazy during the summer...so I may bring you more in the future. ;)

[hells-half-acre.livejournal.com]

Well, from the interview with Jensen where he talked about the time-jump, it doesn't sound like they are going for happy domesticity. He was talking about it from a "soldier coming back from a war" perspective, and how they have difficulty with "normal"...so, that gives me hope.

But yes, I really think that had it been a series finale, they would have both jumped in that hole - and it would have been more of a tie-up.

The problem with everything paying off nicely is that it takes a level of planning that I just don't think Kripke has ever had - just based on the amount of times he's tried something, decided he didn't like it, and killed it off. I mean, I absolutely love the show and I think they do a good job with it, but I can recognize that some of it has been a bit haphazard, so I've made piece with the fact that it's not going to have that nice perfect bow on it at the end of the day.

[claudiapriscus.livejournal.com]

Well, I did tell you my 'alternate universe' season theory, didn't I?

I'll work on embracing it a bit more. I think also some of my disappointment lies in that I got hooked on Season 4, so those were the things I wanted to see payoff. I think some of the longer-term fans are more immune to this than I am because they're used to the random seasonal mytharc veering.

I still think they had it in them, though, without being completely meticulous about it. Lots of planning is one way of doing that payoff, but as it doesn't have to be perfect resolution, I think it's possible to fake it. I mean, they faked it pretty well with a few of their retcons. But that's neither here nor there. I'm pretty forgiving of plotholes when it *feels* like it fits. Like Casablanca. It's got some ridiculously large plotholes and inconsistencies. Big enough that the whole story should probably just fall apart. But it's got one hell of an emotional/thematic payoff, and that seems stronger than all the tight plotting in the world. the "real" story completely transcends the mundane details.

[mymuseandi.livejournal.com]

Oooo...I discussed with one of my RL friends about the possibility of a time-jump, and we both don't really quite like it, mainly because it's actually been done by many other shows, and we always want it to be on current timing.

OTOH, i don't know. The story might develop more if there's a time-jump, as opposed to just sticking to present time. Do you know if the time-jump would be significant? A year? Two? Mirroring the pilot?

Hooray on Jensen directing an episode! I can't wait for him to show his geeky behind-the-scenes side. :)

[trystan830.livejournal.com]

.let's talk about S6 spoilers:

1)There will be a time-jump
which makes TOTAL sense to me. just like there was from the end of S3 to the start of S4.

why are people freaking out? cause it's the Supernatural fandom, it's kinda normal by now for the fandom to go buckets o'mobatshit crazy when the show does something THEY don't want it too. scary to realise i'm in the sane part of the fandom....

but i say - yaaaaaay Supernatural S6!!!

and yaaay for Jensen directing! oh noes, a Sam-centric episode? there goes the ratings.... /sarcasm

[hells-half-acre.livejournal.com]

See, for me Supernatural DOES fake it well enough for me...or, the payoff is enough that I don't care. So, I guess you just have higher standards.

In my opinion Supernatural has never actually done any "retcons" either by the traditional definition...

But yeah, I know what you are saying.

I'm not sure you did tell me your 'alternate universe' season theory...unless I'm just not linking up the name with the theory...

[liliaeth]

I had the same thought, if Sam's just back within a day, or even a week, then what does his sacrifice really mean?

To use an example from another fandom. A few years back, before Spidey went down the drain, thee was this huge storyline called 'the Other' that had Peter killed by a bad guy called Morlun. You get this one beautiful moment where MJ, Peter Parker's wife, is coming to grips with the fact that he's gone. And then the next issue he comes back and ... we don't even get to see anyone else react to his death. His death had no real consequences. Compare that to the death of Captain America, which lasted over a year in comic time and had in universe reactions to his death.

Back to spn, one of the great things of the start of s4, is that even though we start right back up with Dean coming back to life, for the characters four months had passed and we see some of the consequences of Dean's death on Sam and Bobby. It's because we see the pain they went through with Dean gone, that Dean's death remains that meaningful at that point.

I also don't get why people seem to think that SPN is going to make a time jump of years.

[hells-half-acre.livejournal.com]

Jensen said "years", but I'm not sure...I'm hoping for 2 years at most. I'm most concerned about the art-department remembering when they are sticking in dates, or else it's really going to make my timelining harder.

[hells-half-acre.livejournal.com]

Hahaha! You said it.

I'm amazed at how sane I am compared to a lot of people in the fandom.

But yes, the time-jump makes perfect sense to me too.

[hells-half-acre.livejournal.com]

Well, the translation of Jensen's interview has him saying "years" - but who knows how accurate that is. It can't be THAT many years, given that the boys aren't going to age.

But yes, I totally agree - Dean's death had an impact because we saw the effect it had on Sam and Bobby. If Sam came back right away, we wouldn't get the emotional payoff that his sacrifice deserves.

[claudiapriscus.livejournal.com]

Well, sort of retcons, anyway. Changing things in the past to fit with the current storyline that they absolutely, positively, didn't originally intend/do. Sometimes, it can be made to fit seamlessly. Sometimes, in retrospect, it doesn't really make sense at all, but that may or may not be a big problem.


For example, I'm pretty sure that when they introduced Chuck, they weren't thinking, "let's make him actually be god" nor do I bet they thought, "hey, I bet the amulet's a god-detector" when they introduced it.

My "alternate universe season theory" is that every season takes place in a slightly (if significantly) different universe than the season previous. And that explains why none of them really line up on some of the larger mytharc things. (This theory is also known as 'the writers were making up shit as they went along' theory ;)

[hells-half-acre.livejournal.com]

Well, they didn't CHANGE things about the past - they just ADDED things to the past. Therefore, not a retcon in my books. Though, you're correct in the fact that Chuck=God DOES come close to a retcon...because damn, God was a good actor :P What with the nervousness and the prostitutes and the mooning over Becky... :P

And YES! Now I remember your alternate universe season theory. You did explain it before. I remember liking it.

[claudiapriscus.livejournal.com]

I'm just going to ignore Chuck = God and substitute the x-files (where burt reynolds = God) until they force me to think differently.

But that's mostly because I adored Chuck and if he's God...well, if he'd just died there'd be a very good chance he'd be back. God...not so much.

Plus, I know it's stupid fannish detail, but I'm kind of irked that they made a big deal of putting that loaded gun (i mean..amulet) on stage in the first episode, if they weren't planning on having it going off at some point. Figuratively speaking.

[hells-half-acre.livejournal.com]

Yeah, the problem with the amulet is that they DID have it pay off, just not in the way we were expecting. We wanted it to WORK, but they used it as a symbol. Ah well.

The thing with Chuck though, is that even if he wasn't God, there's absolutely no use for him anymore now that the apocalypse storyline is over. He's prophetting days are over, there's nothing to tie him into the story. At least this way we get some sort of closure with his character...otherwise it'd be years from now and we'd be saying "I wonder whatever happened to Chuck?"

Much like a lot of the characters, his days were numbered just because of the purpose he served.

[claudiapriscus.livejournal.com]

He wasn't being particularly prophet-y in "The Real Ghostbusters". Or in "The End." (man, the End definitely puts him in the "jerk" category.) He could have still hung around! Don't burst my little bubble, here.

The amulet thing is confusing, because it was already a symbol, and then it was a plot coupon, and then it was a symbol of Castiel's faith (which seemed kind of shoehorned, but I could go with it), and I'm still puzzled by Dean throwing it away, because he never seemed to see it as a symbol for faith in God, and his relationship with Sam at that point did not seem worse than it had at the beginning of the season, when he was still reluctant to let go of it.

[hells-half-acre.livejournal.com]

Who knows. But yeah, Chuck in the future was odd...unless you go with the theory that the "future" was all a Zachariah manipulation.

Technically, Dean HAD just got back from Heaven where he discovered that all Sam's happiest memories were his worst ones, and that Sam was happiest without him, and OUCH...so, to me it made sense that even as a symbol of brotherhood, Dean was in a foul enough mood to throw it away. But that's me. I think Dean was being pissy and he probably regretted it later, but since it appears Sam didn't have the thought to pull that thing out of the garbage, it's too late now for him to get it back. I bet he's really kicking himself now that his beloved brother is DEAD and IN HELL.

[claudiapriscus.livejournal.com]

Hehe. Yes. That's the mother of all guilt trips right there.

Ben: "hey, whatever happened to your weird necklace thing?"

Dean takes a swig of whisky: "I...lost it." A single perfect tear rolls down his manly cheek.

Ben: "You know, I think I liked it better when Mom was dating the lawyer."

[hells-half-acre.livejournal.com]

LOL!! I love it!! Oh man...

[trystan830.livejournal.com]

demons i get.....

yeah.

[mattheal.livejournal.com]

I do the exact same thing! Almost immediately after the finale I was trolling the internet for the juicy gossip. =D Please to be bringing me many more spoilers!